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Coaching hot seat

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illinicalvin

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Re: Coaching hot seat
« Reply #135 on: March 22, 2023, 01:53:50 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 22, 2023, 01:46:37 PM
Or, Underachiever is a poorly dressed asshole that yells at black kids. Salute to ChicagoFan!
I like the used car salesman sport coat look. Classy like Jim's Steakhouse. Way better than these schulbs wearing track suit tops.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Coaching hot seat
« Reply #136 on: March 22, 2023, 01:54:51 PM »
Quote from: Jobu on March 22, 2023, 01:52:09 PM
ChicagoFan, lol.  Somewhere, that dude is fucking Tracy Abrams in the butt.

That dude probably had the biggest boners each time Underachiever flamed out during The Tourney.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Coaching hot seat
« Reply #137 on: March 22, 2023, 01:56:01 PM »
Quote from: Jobu on March 22, 2023, 01:44:17 PM
Most of us on here have acknowledged that this sounds like bullshit. 

As far as whether Underwood stays or goes, I'm not passionate about it one way or the other.  He's a good coach, but this year was pretty damn rough.  I don't want him to be fired, but if he finds something else, see ya.

It speaks highly to the job he's done here that this year was pretty damn rough, a year we were a lock for a tournament bid.

We'd made one tournament in the 6 years before we hired him.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Coaching hot seat
« Reply #138 on: March 22, 2023, 01:58:40 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 22, 2023, 01:44:36 PM
Through the lens of Illini Standard Incompetence, sure. But the jury may still be out.

1. His first pick at WBB coach stunk. The new one has been good in year one. Let's see what happens.
2. Hired Lovie. He bombed. Then hired Bielema off the scrap heap. Granted Bielema has done some great things with some of Lovie's guys. Let's see what happens.
3. Kept Groce even though he sucked ass and then hired Underachiever. He got the program back to where it should be. He has underachieved, though, relative to some of the talent brought in, has he not? Let's see what happens.

Also, it appears Underachiever is pushing Guenther Jr.'s hand, not the other way around.

Depends what you mean by "some of the talent brought in", I guess.

He brought in Ayo and Kofi, both 30-50 type recruits, and they were All Americans.  They were a 1-seed.  Yes, they flamed out - really the only true tournament upset Underwood's been a part of here - but the idea that that was underachieving based on 'the talent he brought in' is interesting.  The expectations were only so high to begin with because those guys produced much more than was reasonable to expect from guys with their recruiting rankings - the tourney disappointment only existed because of the success he got out of those guys, which was NOT guaranteed.  Most #46 ranked recruits don't turn into two time All Americans.

Kofi was ranked one spot worse than Omar Payne out of HS.  I think Underwood deserves some kind of credit for him being a two-time All American, but instead most of the narrative is about how disappointing Underwood's been.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2023, 02:02:42 PM by spark mandrill »
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spark mandrill

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Re: Coaching hot seat
« Reply #139 on: March 22, 2023, 02:00:33 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 22, 2023, 01:53:16 PM
Sean Miller is alleged to be the guy who is in if/when Underachiever leaves.

Why Underachiever would want to leave is beyond me given the number of "merry men" Illini fans who are just thankful that the team does well in the B1G regular season and make excuses when he loses in the second round to Porter Moser.

And Brad Stevens was in too.  Would be an incredibly stupid reason to ask Underwood to leave.

What's funny is if you asked Arizona fans they'd complain about Miller's lack of a Final Four.

If Underwood's gone, chances are good that we are terrible next year because surely a large part of our core would leave.  Doesn't mean that is the end-all be-all at all, but our fans obviously will lose it and turn on the guy immediately.  It will be an uphill battle for whoever the next guy is, no doubt.
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Chickengeorge

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Re: Coaching hot seat
« Reply #140 on: March 22, 2023, 02:07:08 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 22, 2023, 01:56:01 PM
It speaks highly to the job he's done here that this year was pretty damn rough, a year we were a lock for a tournament bid.

We'd made one tournament in the 6 years before we hired him.

That perspective does get lost in the shuffle of some really rough looking b-ball games this year. But it is a good point.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Coaching hot seat
« Reply #141 on: March 22, 2023, 02:11:28 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 22, 2023, 01:58:40 PM
Depends what you mean by "some of the talent brought in", I guess.

He brought in Ayo and Kofi, both 30-50 type recruits, and they were All Americans.  They were a 1-seed.  Yes, they flamed out - really the only true tournament upset Underwood's been a part of here - but the idea that that was underachieving based on 'the talent he brought in' is interesting.  The expectations were only so high to begin with because those guys produced much more than was reasonable to expect from guys with their recruiting rankings - the tourney disappointment only existed because of the success he got out of those guys, which was NOT guaranteed.  Most #46 ranked recruits don't turn into two time All Americans.

Kofi was ranked one spot worse than Omar Payne out of HS.  I think Underwood deserves some kind of credit for him being a two-time All American, but instead most of the narrative is about how disappointing Underwood's been.

Sure, he deserves some credit for him being a 2x All American. He's a competent coach. He has not proven to be a Top 10 Paid Coach though, has he?
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ThePAMan

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Re: Coaching hot seat
« Reply #142 on: March 22, 2023, 02:16:16 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 22, 2023, 02:00:33 PM
And Brad Stevens was in too.  Would be an incredibly stupid reason to ask Underwood to leave.

What's funny is if you asked Arizona fans they'd complain about Miller's lack of a Final Four.

If Underwood's gone, chances are good that we are terrible next year because surely a large part of our core would leave.  Doesn't mean that is the end-all be-all at all, but our fans obviously will lose it and turn on the guy immediately.  It will be an uphill battle for whoever the next guy is, no doubt.

I do not believe he is being asked to leave. I think maybe he is a guy chasing cash while he can. (And maybe a little thin skinned if there are boosters in his ear because they are pissed about shelling bucks out for, say, Skyy Clark only to see him leave?)

As for the "core" (which is what at this point?), doesn't it depend on if JW is Mike Thomas or someone who can actually upgrade the position from Underachiever?
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Reacher

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Re: Coaching hot seat
« Reply #143 on: March 22, 2023, 02:22:54 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 22, 2023, 01:28:27 PM
You're an Underwood hater now too?

Shocked at how many people want to start over.  Those Weber and Groce years were such a blast.  Frankly those guys are probably closer to the best case scenario if Underwood left right now than the worst.  The number of coaches who are definitely better than Underwood is small, and the number we could get of those guys is pretty close to zero.

Possible it's an upgrade, for sure, but certainly less than 50/50 shot at that.

Hater? No. But I’m not a big fan. I’d be perfectly fine moving on. Realizing that we could get someone worse than him is totally on the table. He’ll keep us competent; I just don’t think his arrow is pointing up, though.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Coaching hot seat
« Reply #144 on: March 22, 2023, 02:28:19 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 22, 2023, 02:16:16 PM
I do not believe he is being asked to leave. I think maybe he is a guy chasing cash while he can. (And maybe a little thin skinned if there are boosters in his ear because they are pissed about shelling bucks out for, say, Skyy Clark only to see him leave?)

As for the "core" (which is what at this point?), doesn't it depend on if JW is Mike Thomas or someone who can actually upgrade the position from Underachiever?

The core is Hawkins, Epps, Rodgers, Harris, Melendez, Goode, TSJ.  Some of those guys may be gone anyway, but if Underwood moves on I expect most of them to hit the portal.  Would take a herculean effort for us to be decent next year in that scenario, we will be starting from close to scratch.
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Reacher

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Re: Coaching hot seat
« Reply #145 on: March 22, 2023, 02:28:48 PM »
Part of the reason I’d be ok with Underwood leaving is I think there are some good, fairly proven coaches who could be snagged. Whether Whitman has what it takes to snag them, not sure. I think the last 2-3 years has been a good time to be in the market for a coach.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Coaching hot seat
« Reply #146 on: March 22, 2023, 02:31:00 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on March 22, 2023, 02:28:48 PM
Part of the reason I’d be ok with Underwood leaving is I think there are some good, fairly proven coaches who could be snagged. Whether Whitman has what it takes to snag them, not sure. I think the last 2-3 years has been a good time to be in the market for a coach.

I agree with you here, Tempo.
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Reacher

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Re: Coaching hot seat
« Reply #147 on: March 22, 2023, 02:31:43 PM »
I think Underwood got a little lucky with Kofi. He was underrated coming in. I think Orlando Antigua was a big part of the secret sauce that is now gone. JMO
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Coaching hot seat
« Reply #148 on: March 22, 2023, 02:33:06 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 22, 2023, 02:28:19 PM
The core is Hawkins, Epps, Rodgers, Harris, Melendez, Goode, TSJ.  Some of those guys may be gone anyway, but if Underwood moves on I expect most of them to hit the portal.  Would take a herculean effort for us to be decent next year in that scenario, we will be starting from close to scratch.

Sure. But depending upon who the new coach is, some who are thinking of leaving may wind up staying. Also, regardless of who the coach is, some may get great NIL offers that they simply cannot refuse.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"
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ThePAMan

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Re: Coaching hot seat
« Reply #149 on: March 22, 2023, 02:34:38 PM »
I am on Team Tempo right now.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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