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WTF is wrong with the left?

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ILLove1997

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #1110 on: June 17, 2021, 12:46:11 PM »


taking a page out of GWB's "no child left behind"?
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #1111 on: June 17, 2021, 02:22:54 PM »
Quote from: ILLove1997 on June 17, 2021, 12:46:11 PM


taking a page out of GWB's "no child left behind"?

This is happening all over the place, California is in a big fit regarding math. Math in particular is a subject with a wide range of abilities and children should be taught to their ability level, otherwise they struggle because they can't keep up or they struggle and act out because they are bored.

A problem occurs when the ability to get this differentiated learning is only available to the affluent, but it's not particularly expensive or ground breaking to have students shuffle for one period a day to their math class.

Being able to do this differentiated learning in underserved schools will be a big win, there are a lot of students who are gifted and talented who end up in the principals office because they are acting out, merely because they are bored, and the impact to such students fall most on lower income students.

This is one of those issues where you have disparate groups on the right and left who are both upset about a policy, but for drastically different reasons. A lot of the people on the right are correct here just by coincidence. The lefties who oppose accelerated classes are just wrong.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #1112 on: June 17, 2021, 04:55:31 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on June 17, 2021, 02:22:54 PM
This is one of those issues where you have disparate groups on the right and left who are both upset about a policy, but for drastically different reasons. A lot of the people on the right are correct here just by coincidence. The lefties who oppose accelerated classes are just wrong.

Yeas, the right wingers are right on this because their ideology coincidentally matches up. The left is wrong on this because their ideology does not fit. What so often gets lost in the shuffle of supporting ideology is what is true and best.   
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 08:18:04 PM by illiniray »
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #1113 on: June 17, 2021, 07:50:32 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on June 17, 2021, 04:55:31 PM
Yeas, the right wingers are right on this because their ideology coincidentally matches up. The left is wrong on this because their ideology does not fit. What so often gets lost in the shuffle of supporting ideology in what is true and best.

At least you are pragmatic about it.
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fucking

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #1114 on: June 17, 2021, 08:10:48 PM »
It was also a mistake (of the ideological left) to stop segregating the kids who like to fight from the kids who like to do math.

Judge Joe Billy McDade forced the Champaign schools to stop separating the punchers from the listeners, because the punchers were disproportionately black.

So, naturally, a boom of non-public schools erupted in Champaign. Now the Champaign schools are disproportionately punchy, and parents of listening kids (of all races) pay a lot to educate their kids in an environment where they have less likelihood of a severe beating.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #1115 on: June 17, 2021, 11:45:31 PM »
Quote from: fucking on June 17, 2021, 08:10:48 PM
It was also a mistake (of the ideological left) to stop segregating the kids who like to fight from the kids who like to do math.

Judge Joe Billy McDade forced the Champaign schools to stop separating the punchers from the listeners, because the punchers were disproportionately black.

So, naturally, a boom of non-public schools erupted in Champaign. Now the Champaign schools are disproportionately punchy, and parents of listening kids (of all races) pay a lot to educate their kids in an environment where they have less likelihood of a severe beating.

The irony being that some of those punchy kids are probably gifted 2E and would be listening if they were challenged.
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fucking

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #1116 on: June 18, 2021, 12:48:10 AM »
I think the problem is more that they spent the first five years with a teenage mother, surrounded by a lot of violence, R Rated movies & unsophisticated vocabulary.

Whether they'd be prodigies if they attended Montessori school, well who knows.
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ILLove1997

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #1117 on: June 18, 2021, 11:09:22 AM »
Probably not if thats their genetic start.  Would be pretty rare
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #1118 on: June 18, 2021, 01:30:24 PM »
Quote from: fucking on June 18, 2021, 12:48:10 AM
I think the problem is more that they spent the first five years with a teenage mother, surrounded by a lot of violence, R Rated movies & unsophisticated vocabulary.

Whether they'd be prodigies if they attended Montessori school, well who knows.

"Dat's racist"

The second sentence underscores you don't know much on the topic, which qualifies you for the Board of Education probably
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fucking

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #1119 on: June 18, 2021, 01:34:14 PM »
Montessori method brings out existing (if latent) abilities & allows them to blossom?
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #1120 on: June 18, 2021, 02:47:37 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on June 18, 2021, 01:30:24 PM
"Dat's racist"

The second sentence underscores you don't know much on the topic, which qualifies you for the Board of Education probably

What he wrote actually made sense. The problem was environments that were not producing children equipped with learning skills.  Children who developed a different kind of survival skills. Disproportionally but certainly not exclusively black.

I knew teachers who retired early because they were physically afraid of their students and school boards left them defenseless.

Now, teachers are more afraid of unintentionally offending students and getting canceled.       

I think it is environment, not genetic, so something like the Montessori method would produce better outcomes.


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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #1121 on: June 18, 2021, 04:56:06 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on June 18, 2021, 02:47:37 PM
What he wrote actually made sense. The problem was environments that were not producing children equipped with learning skills.  Children who developed a different kind of survival skills. Disproportionally but certainly not exclusively black.

I knew teachers who retired early because they were physically afraid of their students and school boards left them defenseless.

Now, teachers are more afraid of unintentionally offending students and getting canceled.       

I think it is environment, not genetic, so something like the Montessori method would produce better outcomes.

You guys are well intentioned but you're sort of making it up as you go along.

Montessori has nothing to do with figuring out "this kid is very adept at math, but is dyslexic". That's a student who would be accelerated in math, but not only be decelerated in English, but would need special support in reading. But that same student may be average when it comes to literary analysis.

The article that kicked this off has the generic worldview of "Smart" - the "smart" kids should get to do honors courses. But "smart" is not some sort of monolithic concept.

The left then gets into the reaction that "smart" isn't a genetic thing, it's a function of support from external factors, which favor the rich, so the inclusion of honors courses is money being spent that only benefits the rich. There's some truth to that, but the answer isn't to get rid of honors courses.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #1122 on: June 18, 2021, 07:06:59 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on June 18, 2021, 04:56:06 PM
You guys are well intentioned but you're sort of making it up as you go along.

Montessori has nothing to do with figuring out "this kid is very adept at math, but is dyslexic". That's a student who would be accelerated in math, but not only be decelerated in English, but would need special support in reading. But that same student may be average when it comes to literary analysis.

The article that kicked this off has the generic worldview of "Smart" - the "smart" kids should get to do honors courses. But "smart" is not some sort of monolithic concept.

The left then gets into the reaction that "smart" isn't a genetic thing, it's a function of support from external factors, which favor the rich, so the inclusion of honors courses is money being spent that only benefits the rich. There's some truth to that, but the answer isn't to get rid of honors courses.

I am saying something like Montessori in concept that addresses the individual needs and latent capacities of all of the students.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #1123 on: June 18, 2021, 07:22:12 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on June 18, 2021, 07:06:59 PM
I am saying something like Montessori in concept that addresses the individual needs and latent capacities of all of the students.

In practice - we have a divergent learner and Montessori was the first concept we ruled out
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ILLove1997

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #1124 on: June 18, 2021, 07:37:24 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on June 18, 2021, 01:30:24 PM
"Dat's racist"

The second sentence underscores you don't know much on the topic, which qualifies you for the Board of Education probably

Makes no mention of skin color

Says "thats racist"


Actually you're the one being stereotypical and racist now...

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