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WTF is wrong with the left?

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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #6615 on: December 05, 2024, 06:25:10 PM »
I approve the edit.
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alum74

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #6616 on: December 05, 2024, 06:36:32 PM »
I approve the edit.

I thought you would.

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ridingthegrange

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #6617 on: December 05, 2024, 06:54:04 PM »
If deficit reduction and running government more like a business is the goal, make the regulatory agencies self funded with any surplus going to social programs and research.

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Judge Judy

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #6618 on: December 05, 2024, 07:58:38 PM »
DOGE hitting alum where it hurts most—eliminating wasteful government jobs.

And providing sources while doing it!
Because FOX News told me so…

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alum74

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #6619 on: December 05, 2024, 08:14:51 PM »
If deficit reduction and running government more like a business is the goal, make the regulatory agencies self funded with any surplus going to social programs and research.

Most day-to-day regulatory activities take place at the local and state level.  While the feds provide funds to implement these programs, many local and state agencies are already self-funding to a certain extent (e.g., permit, license and inspection fees) to help cover their program costs.  The fees are minimal for small businesses and capped for larger businesses.  This means local and state governments have to make up the difference through general revenue funds, where available.  There is no reason why regulatory agencies can’t raise their fees over time, but there is a political calculus involved.  The fees will never be sufficient to cover program costs.  Otherwise, they would face a huge backlash from the business community and their lobbyists.   

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IlliniGolf

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #6620 on: December 08, 2024, 07:04:19 AM »
Tempo, Ray, Alum, Smurph, McLassie: Raging FOR the machine since 2020 !!!

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IlliniGolf

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #6621 on: December 12, 2024, 08:56:04 AM »
Tempo, Ray, Alum, Smurph, McLassie: Raging FOR the machine since 2020 !!!

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IlliniGolf

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #6622 on: December 12, 2024, 09:02:42 AM »
Obvious now the 2020 election was rigged


pics upload site
Tempo, Ray, Alum, Smurph, McLassie: Raging FOR the machine since 2020 !!!

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #6623 on: December 12, 2024, 01:18:06 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/06/opinion/trump-elites-working-class.html?smid=url-share

Voters to Elites: Do You See Me Now?
Nov. 6, 2024
By David Brooks

We have entered a new political era. For the past 40 years or so, we lived in the information age. Those of us in the educated class decided, with some justification, that the postindustrial economy would be built by people like ourselves, so we tailored social policies to meet our needs.

Our education policy pushed people toward the course we followed — four-year colleges so that they would be qualified for the “jobs of the future.” Meanwhile, vocational training withered. We embraced a free trade policy that moved industrial jobs to low-cost countries overseas so that we could focus our energies on knowledge economy enterprises run by people with advanced degrees. The financial and consulting sector mushroomed while manufacturing employment shriveled.

Geography was deemed unimportant — if capital and high-skill labor wanted to cluster in Austin, San Francisco and Washington, it didn’t really matter what happened to all those other communities left behind. Immigration policies gave highly educated people access to low-wage labor while less-skilled workers faced new competition. We shifted toward green technologies favored by people who work in pixels, and we disfavored people in manufacturing and transportation whose livelihoods depend on fossil fuels.

That great sucking sound you heard was the redistribution of respect. People who climbed the academic ladder were feted with accolades, while those who didn’t were rendered invisible. The situation was particularly hard on boys. By high school two-thirds of the students in the top 10 percent of the class are girls, while about two-thirds of the students in the bottom decile are boys. Schools are not set up for male success; that has lifelong personal, and now national, consequences.

Society worked as a vast segregation system, elevating the academically gifted above everybody else. Before long, the diploma divide became the most important chasm in American life. High school graduates die nine years sooner than college-educated people. They die of opioid overdoses at six times the rate. They marry less and divorce more and are more likely to have a child out of wedlock. They are more likely to be obese. A recent American Enterprise Institute study found that 24 percent of people who graduated from high school at most have no close friends. They are less likely than college grads to visit public spaces or join community groups and sports leagues. They don’t speak in the right social justice jargon or hold the sort of luxury beliefs that are markers of public virtue.

The chasms led to a loss of faith, a loss of trust, a sense of betrayal. Nine days before the elections, I visited a Christian nationalist church in Tennessee. The service was illuminated by genuine faith, it is true, but also a corrosive atmosphere of bitterness, aggression, betrayal. As the pastor went on about the Judases who seek to destroy us, the phrase “dark world” popped into my head — an image of a people who perceive themselves to be living under constant threat and in a culture of extreme distrust. These people, and many other Americans, weren’t interested in the politics of joy that Kamala Harris and the other law school grads were offering.

The Democratic Party has one job: to combat inequality. Here was a great chasm of inequality right before their noses and somehow many Democrats didn’t see it. Many on the left focused on racial inequality, gender inequality and L.G.B.T.Q. inequality. I guess it’s hard to focus on class inequality when you went to a college with a multibillion-dollar endowment and do environmental greenwashing and diversity seminars for a major corporation. Donald Trump is a monstrous narcissist, but there’s something off about an educated class that looks in the mirror of society and sees only itself.

As the left veered toward identitarian performance art, Donald Trump jumped into the class war with both feet. His Queens-born resentment of the Manhattan elites dovetailed magically with the class animosity being felt by rural people across the country. His message was simple: These people have betrayed you, and they are morons to boot.

In 2024, he built the very thing the Democratic Party once tried to build — a multiracial, working-class majority. His support surged among Black and Hispanic workers. He recorded astonishing gains in places like New Jersey, the Bronx, Chicago, Dallas and Houston. According to the NBC exit polls, he won a third of voters of color. He’s the first Republican to win a majority of the votes in 20 years.

The Democrats obviously have to do some major rethinking. The Biden administration tried to woo the working class with subsidies and stimulus, but there is no economic solution to what is primarily a crisis of respect.

There will be some on the left who will say Trump won because of the inherent racism, sexism and authoritarianism of the American people. Apparently, those people love losing and want to do it again and again and again.

The rest of us need to look at this result with humility. American voters are not always wise, but they are generally sensible, and they have something to teach us. My initial thought is that I have to re-examine my own priors. I’m a moderate. I like it when Democratic candidates run to the center. But I have to confess that Harris did that pretty effectively and it didn’t work. Maybe the Democrats have to embrace a Bernie Sanders-style disruption — something that will make people like me feel uncomfortable.

Can the Democratic Party do this? Can the party of the universities, the affluent suburbs and the hipster urban cores do this? Well, Donald Trump hijacked a corporate party, which hardly seemed like a vehicle for proletarian revolt, and did exactly that. Those of us who condescend to Trump should feel humbled — he did something none of us could do.

But we are entering a period of white water. Trump is a sower of chaos, not fascism. Over the next few years, a plague of disorder will descend upon America, and maybe the world, shaking everything loose. If you hate polarization, just wait until we experience global disorder. But in chaos there’s opportunity for a new society and a new response to the Trumpian political, economic and psychological assault. These are the times that try people’s souls, and we’ll see what we are made of.

______________________
The Times is committed to publishing a diversity of letters to the editor. We’d like to hear what you think about this or any of our articles. Here are some tips. And here’s our email: letters@nytimes.com.

Follow the New York Times Opinion section on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, WhatsApp, X and Threads.

David Brooks is an Opinion columnist for The Times, writing about political, social and cultural trends. @nytdavidbrooks

A version of this article appears in print on Nov. 8, 2024, Section A, Page 22 of the New York edition with the headline: Voters to Elites: Do You See Me Now?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2024, 01:30:57 PM by illiniray »
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #6624 on: December 12, 2024, 01:36:32 PM »
There will be some on the left who will say Trump won because of the inherent racism, sexism and authoritarianism of the American people. Apparently, those people love losing and want to do it again and again and again.

Tempo and Murph, by thy name.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #6625 on: December 12, 2024, 01:52:01 PM »
Tempo and Murph, by thy name.

Pretty certain I have put all my money on "expensive eggs" - repeatedly

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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #6626 on: December 12, 2024, 02:06:13 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/06/opinion/trump-elites-working-class.html?smid=url-share

Voters to Elites: Do You See Me Now?
Nov. 6, 2024
By David Brooks

Our education policy pushed people toward the course we followed — four-year colleges so that they would be qualified for the “jobs of the future.” Meanwhile, vocational training withered. We embraced a free trade policy that moved industrial jobs to low-cost countries overseas so that we could focus our energies on knowledge economy enterprises run by people with advanced degrees. The financial and consulting sector mushroomed while manufacturing employment shriveled.

That great sucking sound you heard was the redistribution of respect. People who climbed the academic ladder were feted with accolades, while those who didn’t were rendered invisible. The situation was particularly hard on boys. By high school two-thirds of the students in the top 10 percent of the class are girls, while about two-thirds of the students in the bottom decile are boys. Schools are not set up for male success; that has lifelong personal, and now national, consequences.

It's funny that David Brooks of all people is lecturing about elites. Has that dude ever changed a light bulb, let alone installed a light fixture or rewired the switch?

I am not seeing vocational training withering. There is all this talk about "the trades". We've been involved in a lot of remodels - both me personally and my Mother is a realtor. If you want to get into the trades, the path is there. The aforementioned family friend who re-did the bathrooms in Tahoe, actually has a PhD in microbiology, did that for a decade or so, and got sick of it, started working with contractors on projects, learned how to do tiling, flooring, electrical, plumbing, and now he just goes from project to project with his own shingle. By shingle I mean "he posts work he did on Facebook and people seek him out". He's never shy of work because there are more trades people needed, but that's not because of lack of training, it's a lack of moxie. The work is there, the training is there. Not sure exactly whom to blame - moxie isn't free. We have definitely had a recent tradition of leaders who don't really inspire men to be men when it's time to be men, just to be men when it's NOT time to be men. I don't know the answer. The trades guys that have done work for us have just been awesome - professional, handy, efficient - and CONFIDENT. That comes from having a valued job that pays well and is seen by customers and society as important and special. How we get that path to be less sticky, I don't know.

The high school thing is pretty amusing. I'll trust Brook's claim here, I'm sure he's researched it and as a whole I think the stats show more women in college than men, but in my own bubble the problem is definitely that in STEM fields, schools are set up for male success, not female success. I don't think the push to make STEM more accessible to females has cost any men willing to pursue those fields a thing.

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #6627 on: December 12, 2024, 02:41:23 PM »
There is money to be made in rehabs / remodels. I know several 50ish guys doing this -- an electrician, a painter, and guy who mainly does flooring.

They could all expand if they could could find better help. They say most applicants either show up every day, but lack skills;  or have skills, but aren't reliable. Employees that show up every day and have skills are in high demand.

I thought the stuff Jason posted and this were both interesting.

Democrats constituency appears to be college educated, more satisfied, and urban / urbane.
Republicans appeal to more rural denizens who strike me as being less educated, , more fundamentalist religious, more anti-science, and more malcontented.
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #6628 on: December 12, 2024, 03:13:19 PM »
I’m glad you guys are figuring out why people dislike the Democrat platform so much they’re willing to vote for Donald Trump.

Trump won’t cause the chaos Brooks described.  2019 was much less chaotic than the past two years. The world is on fire right now under a weak and ineffective administration.

It will be the people who can’t stand to let Trump be successful that will sow the chaos then point the finger back at him. 
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #6629 on: December 12, 2024, 03:23:02 PM »
There is money to be made in rehabs / remodels. I know several 50ish guys doing this -- an electrician, a painter, and guy who mainly does flooring.

They could all expand if they could could find better help. They say most applicants either show up every day, but lack skills;  or have skills, but aren't reliable. Employees that show up every day and have skills are in high demand.

that's basically our remodel.

Tree work - a vendor from Placerville, basically a family operation, solid workers. Cost a lot, but tree work you *really* want someone good because if someone fucks up tree work, you can't just "fix" it. They could mess up the canopy that could be years (if ever) to regrow, could kill a tree, and in the case of us removing a 100 foot pine, could dump a tree on your roof and cause a ton of damage to the house.

Bathrooms. Two brothers from neighborhood I grew up in. Older one has a PhD, reliable, just decided he wanted to be a hobo, do remodels, repair boats, do boat repositioning (sail a boat from the Caymans to the Canary Islands, etc). Younger one has had a few issues but is rolling along. Add in a carpenter working for Hyatt who did the work on his vacation to make some extra scratch. All three were good, we had a connection that if they screwed it up their mom would kill them, and they had to get finished and go home.

Exterior. One guy running a handyman service in Tahoe. Very skilled. Reliable for the most part. Project is moving along at schedule - because we padded the schedule for whatever he might have going on and because he would be dealing with helpers who might vanish. We did it in October because it's slow and if you start to bleed into ski season, helpers vanish on powder days.

The tree guy charged the most - because he has an actual business with a shingle and yelp reviews, expensive equipment. I called him, he gave me a quote and a day within a week, they showed up, knocked it off, had the fire department inspect, and were gone. That part of the job I chose to go that route because it was the most likely to have adverse results. And that's why that guy gets paid.

The other parts were cheaper, and you get what you pay for - good work, a shortcut here or there, schedule is a bit spotty, but in the end you get good value. The key was to have recommendations that vouched it would get done, and have some flexibility. People operating a notch up are building hotels or ski area buildings and being paid accordingly.

Trades pay pretty good. If you can do the trades and have real organizational skills, no substance issues, show up on time and get er done - the trades pay GREAT. Those are the guys who end up owning businesses and making real bank.