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WTF is wrong with the left?

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #5775 on: August 24, 2024, 10:36:41 AM »
Quote from: Custard on August 24, 2024, 12:27:35 AM
The bailouts didn’t cause proper inflation per se, but they counteracted deflation in a major financial crisis. The opposite of deflation is inflation, so…

This time the bailouts and payouts overshot any kind of actual need, a lot of it went into the hands of families and small businesses and not big banks, so it was very quickly spent in an already voluntarily constrained supply chain. Too much money chasing too little supply is the core component of inflation, and it isn’t debatable.

It's poor people's fault.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #5776 on: August 24, 2024, 10:39:53 AM »
"Cutting taxes does not raise revenue. Increased executive compensation does not trickle down. Deregulation does not increase competition."

"Defending things like the carried-interest loophole and unregulated stock buybacks means nothing important will change ..."

https://casten.house.gov/media/in-the-news/theres-a-reason-why-stock-buybacks-used-to-be-illegal
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #5777 on: August 24, 2024, 10:52:10 AM »
Quote from: LuvsTerrorists on August 24, 2024, 09:46:40 AM
Greedflation is playing a huge role in rocketing costs. Go to Twitter or Google and search stock buy backs. Grocery chains, restaurant chains, and other corporations are enriching themselves through manipulation. There’s a reason stock buy backs used to be illegal.

Meh. If a company has a billion dollars, they can put it in Treasuries or buy back stock. If they later need more money, they can issue more stock. Buybacks aren't the issue.

If you take issue with how they got the billion dollars, that's one thing. But buying back stock is just moving money around.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #5778 on: August 24, 2024, 11:12:30 AM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on August 24, 2024, 10:52:10 AM
Meh. If a company has a billion dollars, they can put it in Treasuries or buy back stock. If they later need more money, they can issue more stock. Buybacks aren't the issue.

If you take issue with how they got the billion dollars, that's one thing. But buying back stock is just moving money around.

Moving money around to artificially inflate the stock price to boost executive bonuses.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2015/06/04/sen-elizabeth-warren-decries-stock-buybacks-and-high-ceo-pay-seeks-overturn-rules/iXvsq8lGI6KOFsFY5w7FUP/story.html
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #5779 on: August 24, 2024, 11:58:45 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on August 24, 2024, 11:12:30 AM
Moving money around to artificially inflate the stock price to boost executive bonuses.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2015/06/04/sen-elizabeth-warren-decries-stock-buybacks-and-high-ceo-pay-seeks-overturn-rules/iXvsq8lGI6KOFsFY5w7FUP/story.html

If they didn't buy back the stock, the company would still have the money, which is factored into the price per share.
If the stock is $10 a share and the company has $2 a share in stock, and they use that money to buy shares, the shares post purchase no longer represent that $2 a share in stock.

That would make purchasers of future shares less willing to pay higher prices because the underlying value of the cash is gone.

If the company wanted to reward their executives more - they could simply pay them a larger bonus, in cash, instead of buying back shares.

The real complaint would be that the company is not using that cash as higher compensation for rank and file workers, they are just stashing it in the equity.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2024, 12:00:21 PM by murphstahoe »
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #5780 on: August 24, 2024, 01:12:13 PM »
I need to reread the articles.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #5781 on: August 24, 2024, 01:24:46 PM »
 From Forbes:

For most of the 20th century, stock buybacks were deemed illegal because they were thought to be a form of stock market manipulation. But since 1982, when they were essentially legalized by the SEC, buybacks have become perhaps the most popular financial engineering tool in the C-Suite tool shed. And it’s obvious why Wall Street loves them: Buying back company stock can inflate a company’s share price and boost its earnings per share?—?metrics that often guide lucrative executive bonuses. As Reuters wrote recently, “Stock buybacks enrich the bosses even when business sags.”

Ibid
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Reacher

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #5782 on: August 24, 2024, 02:27:19 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on August 24, 2024, 11:12:30 AM
Moving money around to artificially inflate the stock price to boost executive bonuses.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2015/06/04/sen-elizabeth-warren-decries-stock-buybacks-and-high-ceo-pay-seeks-overturn-rules/iXvsq8lGI6KOFsFY5w7FUP/story.html

Precisely. They don’t “move money around” just for shits and giggles. They do it because it’s a good way to print money for those who already have a lot of it.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #5783 on: August 24, 2024, 06:08:22 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on August 24, 2024, 01:24:46 PM
From Forbes:

For most of the 20th century, stock buybacks were deemed illegal because they were thought to be a form of stock market manipulation. But since 1982, when they were essentially legalized by the SEC, buybacks have become perhaps the most popular financial engineering tool in the C-Suite tool shed. And it’s obvious why Wall Street loves them: Buying back company stock can inflate a company’s share price and boost its earnings per share?—?metrics that often guide lucrative executive bonuses. As Reuters wrote recently, “Stock buybacks enrich the bosses even when business sags.”

Ibid

That's a very good point - if there are fewer shares and the same profits, the P/E ratio does go up, but for no real reason, and at the cost of the company's cash position. If compensation is tied to P/E, it's definitely shenanigans. But the shenanigans aren't the buyback, it's the compensation package that allows the manipulation that is the problem.

Buybacks are often compared to paying a dividend. It really should not be true - a dividend takes money from the company and poof - it's no longer in the company. Buybacks take company money and turn it into shares that have the same effective value as the money.

What would be your position on Company A buying shares of Company B?
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #5784 on: August 25, 2024, 04:00:19 PM »
Fucking Champaign Costco out of eggs! Damned poor people spending their COVID money!
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #5785 on: August 25, 2024, 10:51:26 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on August 24, 2024, 06:08:22 PM
That's a very good point - if there are fewer shares and the same profits, the P/E ratio does go up, but for no real reason, and at the cost of the company's cash position. If compensation is tied to P/E, it's definitely shenanigans. But the shenanigans aren't the buyback, it's the compensation package that allows the manipulation that is the problem.

Buybacks are often compared to paying a dividend. It really should not be true - a dividend takes money from the company and poof - it's no longer in the company. Buybacks take company money and turn it into shares that have the same effective value as the money.

What would be your position on Company A buying shares of Company B?

depends
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #5786 on: August 26, 2024, 12:30:35 AM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on August 25, 2024, 04:00:19 PM
Fucking Champaign Costco out of eggs! Damned poor people spending their COVID money!

Tired: You go to Costco and buy eggs.

Wired: I buy Costco stock.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #5787 on: August 26, 2024, 08:32:35 AM »
The only place more expensive than Costco to buy milk and eggs is DG.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #5788 on: August 26, 2024, 08:52:53 AM »
Quote from: Custard on August 26, 2024, 08:32:35 AM
The only place more expensive than Costco to buy milk and eggs is DG.

Downers Grove?
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Jobu

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #5789 on: August 26, 2024, 10:55:36 AM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on August 26, 2024, 08:52:53 AM
Downers Grove?

You need to get downstate more. I think he's referring to Dollar General.

Every time there is ground torn up around here, with construction, it's safe to assume that a Dollar General is being built.
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