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WTF is wrong with the left?

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illiniray and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2020, 11:21:58 AM »
You routinely—perhaps obsessively—rant against the actions and words of our elected officials, yet simultaneously plead for the elected officials within our government to intervene on a greater scale.

I don’t have an issue with the points you make, I guess I just have a hard time understanding how we get from point A to point B with the system as it currently exists.

I assume you think that the Democratic Party offers we the people the best opportunity to achieve your ideological concepts, but the best they can offer us is an addled, boring old man.

If there was ever a time for a legitimate third party candidate to step in, it would be now.

Translation: I love Trump, moar Jill Stein now

Your translator is badly malfunctioning
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2020, 11:49:07 AM »
also LMFAO

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/black-twitter-mocks-pelosi-schumer-kente-cloth

really weird none of the other "unbiased" outlets aren't covering this
[/b]

Maybe when you can pull yourself away from Fox News and the YouTube conspiracy channels: 

New Yorker, The Embarrassment of Democrats Wearing Kente-Cloth Stoles
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/on-and-off-the-avenue/the-embarrassment-of-democrats-wearing-kente-cloth-stoles

CNN, Congressional Democrats criticized for wearing Kente cloth at event honoring George Floyd
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/08/politics/democrats-criticized-kente-cloth-trnd/index.html

BuzzFeed, The Performative Political BS Has To Stop
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/shannonkeating/democrats-kente-cloth-pelosi-cuomo-bowser-black-lives-matter

Daily Beast, Trevor Noah Roasts Nancy Pelosi and Dems for Kente Cloth Fiasco
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trevor-noah-roasts-nancy-pelosi-and-democrats-for-donning-kente-cloths-to-honor-george-floyd

Try to keep up.

hey man I don't have all day to goggle things

ILLove = Big10Man is a match!
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2020, 11:51:48 AM »
https://nationalfile.com/seattle-autonomous-zone-warlord-creates-private-police-force-gets-dubbed-black-george-zimmerman/

lmao

apparently they also ran out of food in two days as well because homeless people were stealing it, yay communism!

or maybe its totally a fake hoax, still funny

Why am I not surprised you read National File.

From MediaBias/FactCheck:

“Founded in 2019, National File is a conspiracy and pseudoscience website that reports from a conservative perspective. According to their about page: “National File is a bold new media project focused on hard news regarding cultural movements, political issues, the tech industry, and other topics pertaining to the New Right. Our team includes distinguished journalists with previous experience at Breitbart, The Daily Caller, Free Beacon, The Gateway Pundit, GameRanx, One Angry Gamer, and Big League Politics.”

“National File frequently publishes conspiracies such as the Clintons being involved in human sex trafficking to World Trade Center conspiracies, implying that the towers were taken down by controlled demolition. Neither of these claims have been proven, in fact, they have been debunked. They also reject human influenced climate change and frequently resort to pseudoscience or junk science to validate their points. Finally, they promote anti-vaccine propaganda such as this: Parents Take To The Streets To Save Vaccine Exemptions From Political Elites. In general, National File is a light version of Infowars that lacks credibility.”

“The website also features a section dedicated to immigration that routinely portrays immigrants negatively such as this: FLASHBACK: Swedish Boy Beaten by Migrant for Having Blue Eyes. In general, National File takes a strong white nationalist anti-immigration position through negative portrayal of immigrants and/or Muslims as criminals or dangerous such as this: UK: Pedophile Rape Gang Left to Roam Streets, Police Knew, Did Nothing About it.”

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/national-file/

Regardless,  these people are still idiots and are working hard to swing the election to Trump.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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alum74

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2020, 12:22:38 PM »
OK. I read the CNN link....
It's all about solidarity, so don't criticize.

Rep. Karen Bass, chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus, said at the news conference unveiling new legislation -- aimed at cracking down on police brutality and reforming policing in the US -- that the white lawmakers were wearing the cloths in an act of solidarity.
"The significance of the Kente cloth is our African heritage," Bass said. "And for those of you without that heritage, we're acting in solidarity.

Nice attempt at cherry-picking one of the articles.
I cherry picked the dont criticize us, its solidarity.
You posted the link.  :D

And you conveniently left out the following statements in the CNN article that were critical of Pelosi and the Dems:

“The wearing of the Kente cloths drew criticism from a University of Oxford researcher who saw the move as performative.  ‘My ancestors did not invent Kente cloth for them to be worn by publicity (obsessed) politicians as 'activism' in 2020,’ Jade Bentil, a Ghanaian-Nigerian researcher at University of Oxford, tweeted.”

"’Standing in front of a church and holding up a bible you never read for a photo op is no different than kneeling in kente cloth you never wear for a photo op, ’Charles Robinson, a sports reporter for Yahoo tweeted, referring to the now infamous moment when President Donald Trump held up a Bible at St. John's Episcopal Church for a photo-op last week.

"’What if they, like, just passed some laws instead of dressing up like a Wakandan chess set?’ screenwriter Eric Haywood tweeted.”


 

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No one in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2020, 01:55:36 PM »

Oh, I get the gist of the article. Present the criticism, and finish with the rebuttal to put the argument to rest.
The Ghanaian-Nigerian researcher is mistaken when he referred to the appropriation as "activism".
It's clearly a sign of solidarity.
And a sports reporter saying that someone using a never read Bible for a photo-op is not the equivalent of a sign of solidarity that some may construe as a photo-op. Its a sports reporter. Goodness gracious.
The message needs to be clear. This is an act of solidarity.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 01:57:50 PM by Mn »
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ILLove1997

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2020, 02:13:16 PM »
https://nationalfile.com/seattle-autonomous-zone-warlord-creates-private-police-force-gets-dubbed-black-george-zimmerman/

lmao

apparently they also ran out of food in two days as well because homeless people were stealing it, yay communism!

or maybe its totally a fake hoax, still funny

Why am I not surprised you read National File.

From MediaBias/FactCheck:

“Founded in 2019, National File is a conspiracy and pseudoscience website that reports from a conservative perspective. According to their about page: “National File is a bold new media project focused on hard news regarding cultural movements, political issues, the tech industry, and other topics pertaining to the New Right. Our team includes distinguished journalists with previous experience at Breitbart, The Daily Caller, Free Beacon, The Gateway Pundit, GameRanx, One Angry Gamer, and Big League Politics.”

“National File frequently publishes conspiracies such as the Clintons being involved in human sex trafficking to World Trade Center conspiracies, implying that the towers were taken down by controlled demolition. Neither of these claims have been proven, in fact, they have been debunked. They also reject human influenced climate change and frequently resort to pseudoscience or junk science to validate their points. Finally, they promote anti-vaccine propaganda such as this: Parents Take To The Streets To Save Vaccine Exemptions From Political Elites. In general, National File is a light version of Infowars that lacks credibility.”

“The website also features a section dedicated to immigration that routinely portrays immigrants negatively such as this: FLASHBACK: Swedish Boy Beaten by Migrant for Having Blue Eyes. In general, National File takes a strong white nationalist anti-immigration position through negative portrayal of immigrants and/or Muslims as criminals or dangerous such as this: UK: Pedophile Rape Gang Left to Roam Streets, Police Knew, Did Nothing About it.”

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/national-file/

Never read it except for that one article which I found hilarious
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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2020, 02:41:15 PM »
That’s hilarious it’s sad people can’t read something like that and chuckle rather than run to a fact checking site
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IlliniGolf

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2020, 03:26:45 PM »
Tempo, Ray, Alum, Smurph, McLassie: Raging FOR the machine since 2020 !!!

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No one in Mn

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2020, 03:52:12 PM »
Maybe Governor Inslee should start reading National File.

"During a news conference Wednesday, Inslee, a former Democratic presidential candidate, was asked about the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone.

“Well, that’s news to me. So I’ll have to reserve any comment about it. I have not heard anything about that from any credible source,” the governor said, adding a chuckle.

“Not that you’re not credible, it’s just that I — before I espouse an opinion, I should know of which I speak,” he said, once again snickering."
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2020, 05:18:32 PM »
A big problem for the left is their lack of competence in labeling their proposals.  Medicare for all, Green New Deal, Defund Police etc...  They hamstring themselves by giving  the opposition easy talking points with which to bash the concepts.  Universal Healthcare, Jobs for the Next Century, Reinvent Policing would be better just off the top of my head.  Definitely need to enlist the services of marketing folks.  "Fix the Damn Roads!" worked for that woman in Fucking scUM.

That's a good point, although I am not sure it demonstrates a lack of competence. This goes to why I harp on the very real difference between Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy. Medicare for All or Single Payer National Health Insurance is a policy of the Democratic Socialists. As is the Green New Deal. They also probably want to literally defund the police and use that money for wealth redistribution.  Your reframing reflects policies of Social Democracy.  Universal Healthcare can and should involve private health insurance and private medicine.  The role of government is regulation, to make sure quality affordable coverage is available to everyone.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread ... through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Azimov

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2020, 05:25:52 PM »
When a drug dealer kills someone, people are not actually supposed to take vigilante action.  They are supposed to call the police. Who do they call when the police are the criminals?   
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread ... through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Azimov

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2020, 06:10:19 PM »
The concept of white privilege is flawed too.  Alleged examples:

I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven’t been singled out because of my race.

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/culture/a32752175/white-privilege-everyday-examples/

These are not privileges.  I am sorry that some people are followed, harassed, asked to speak for their racial group, or pulled over because of their skin pigmentation.  This should not happen to anyone. How is the fact it does not happen to white people a privilege? There is something insidious about calling freedom from harassment by the police an unearned  privilege.   
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 09:08:26 PM by illiniray »
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread ... through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Azimov

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alum74

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2020, 07:30:33 PM »
A big problem for the left is their lack of competence in labeling their proposals.  Medicare for all, Green New Deal, Defund Police etc...  They hamstring themselves by giving  the opposition easy talking points with which to bash the concepts.  Universal Healthcare, Jobs for the Next Century, Reinvent Policing would be better just off the top of my head.  Definitely need to enlist the services of marketing folks.  "Fix the Damn Roads!" worked for that woman in Fucking scUM.

That's a good point, although I am not sure it demonstrates a lack of competence. This goes to why I harp on the very real difference between Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy. Medicare for All or Single Payer National Health Insurance is a policy of the Democratic Socialists. As is the Green New Deal. They also probably want to literally defund the police and use that money for wealth redistribution.  Your reframing reflects policies of Social Democracy.  Universal Healthcare can and should involve private health insurance and private medicine.  The role of government is regulation, to make sure quality affordable coverage is available to everyone.

Good discussion.  "Defund the Police" seems to be shorthand for a collection of ideas, including spending less money on military hardware, changing the “warrior culture,” and spending more money on mental health and communication.   

Agree that it’s a terrible slogan.  It implies that you want to punish (but not change) the police.  And we all know that when you're explaining what a slogan “really means” you have a political loser.   The leading advocates for change should hire conservative political wordsmith Frank Lutz to help rebrand the message. 

FWIW, here’s an op-ed piece from The New Republic that argues for revamping the training standards for police departments.   

The Police’s “Sheepdog” Problem
“Policing is not combat, it’s not a war. It’s an entirely different world, an entirely different mindset. Yet the preparation is parallel to the military.”
https://newrepublic.com/article/158136/military-veterans-police-sheepdog-problem
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 07:34:35 PM by alum74 »

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2020, 08:01:24 PM »
Or. alternatively, the left could adopt the other (recent) GOP tactic of never apologizing. Fuck Yeah We Did That!

Because Fuck The Police.

I know a few good apples, and I have great things to say about them. But as long as the prevailing attitude is Thin Blue Line & Cops Don't Rat On Cops then we have a paid force of armed, lawless thugs. I've met them too.

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is wrong with the left?
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2020, 08:35:11 PM »
It's like lawyers. 98% give all the rest a bad name.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread ... through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Azimov