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wtf is wrong with the right?

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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3330 on: June 06, 2023, 04:59:35 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 04:47:27 PM
Can you come up with one example of a Perv Bob putting on a wig, going into the women's room, committing a crime, and not being prosecuted because Bob said they were trans?

I have not seen anything, but gender issues appear to be more public. I am sure it will come up.

Probably the best argument I can think of is one you did raise. Perv Sue or Perv Priest Bob are going in the washroom of their gender of Judge Judy's daughter or son and can attempt this stuff anyway, but Judge Judy is not checking their junk.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3331 on: June 06, 2023, 05:01:28 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 04:58:13 PM
Perv Bob can ALREADY enter the women's room with Judy's daughter, even in the states with anti-trans bathroom laws, and it's already a crime if he assaults or spies on her.  That's true everywhere in America, right now - if you spy on or assault someone it's a crime.  Judy wants to also make it a crime for a trans person to mind their own business and use the restroom.

It doesn't solve the problem even a little bit, it's completely unenforceable short of checking in everyone's pants, and it opens up trans people to violent assaults against them - which they're already 400% more likely to have occur than a cis person.  If you think that's a bug and not a feature to the "I'll cut their dick off and shove it down their throat" crowd, you shouldn't call others naive.

I am guessing that, in Judge Judy's mind, one less thing to worry about when his kid goes to the public restroom. Whether that is a valid concern, given all the other possibilities out there, is irrelevant. 
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3332 on: June 06, 2023, 05:02:28 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 04:58:13 PM
It doesn't solve the problem even a little bit, it's completely unenforceable short of checking in everyone's pants, and it opens up trans people to violent assaults against them - which they're already 400% more likely to have occur than a cis person.  If you think that's a bug and not a feature to the "I'll cut their dick off and shove it down their throat" crowd, you shouldn't call others naive.

Not everyone is Judge Judy, that is for sure.
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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3333 on: June 06, 2023, 05:03:29 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 05:01:28 PM
I am guessing that, in Judge Judy's mind, one less thing to worry about when his kid goes to the public restroom. Whether that is a valid concern, given all the other possibilities out there, is irrelevant.

If Judy's worried about what's in someone's pants instead of their actions, that's on her.  Not the person trying to use the bathroom and leave.
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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3334 on: June 06, 2023, 05:05:20 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 04:59:35 PM
I have not seen anything, but gender issues appear to be more public. I am sure it will come up.

Probably the best argument I can think of is one you did raise. Perv Sue or Perv Priest Bob are going in the washroom of their gender of Judge Judy's daughter or son and can attempt this stuff anyway, but Judge Judy is not checking their junk.

Well yeah.  It could not be more clear that the "for the kids' safety" thing is the flimsy cover, and the "I think trans and other LGBTQ+ people are weird and gross" thing is the driving force.

Again, you see a lot of bills banning Drag Queen Story Hour, where they've had basically no incidents, and very few banning kids from going to Mass on Sunday, where there's a long, long history of pedophilia and sexual assault.  That is not a coincidence.
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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3335 on: June 06, 2023, 05:11:01 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 04:59:35 PM
I have not seen anything, but gender issues appear to be more public. I am sure it will come up.

Surely you don’t really believe “I’m trans, I was allowed to be in the bathroom!” would prevent a sexual assault or spying prosecution, right?  Those things are crimes no matter who you are.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3336 on: June 06, 2023, 05:12:24 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 05:03:29 PM
If Judy's worried about what's in someone's pants instead of their actions, that's on her.  Not the person trying to use the bathroom and leave.

Well, the fact is Judge Judy is not alone in his thinking. The issue is how to change minds. I can tell you calling people bigots and dumb, and murders, is not going to do it.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3337 on: June 06, 2023, 05:15:13 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 05:11:01 PM
Surely you don’t really believe “I’m trans, I was allowed to be in the bathroom!” would prevent a sexual assault or spying prosecution, right?  Those things are crimes no matter who you are.

Sexual assault is one thing. "Spying" is another. The point is that it being illegal for "Perv Bob" to be in the women's room is far easier to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt." 
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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3338 on: June 06, 2023, 05:16:14 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 05:12:24 PM
Well, the fact is Judge Judy is not alone in his thinking. The issue is how to change minds. I can tell you calling people bigots and dumb, and murders, is not going to do it.

I mean, I doubt anything I say is going to change the mind of someone who thought “I’ll cut his dick off” was a reasonable response to a trans person using the same restroom as his daughter.

I can only think of one group that benefits from the “don’t call out bigotry” point of view.
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spark mandrill

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3339 on: June 06, 2023, 05:17:21 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 06, 2023, 05:15:13 PM
Sexual assault is one thing. "Spying" is another. The point is that it being illegal for "Perv Bob" to be in the women's room is far easier to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt."

But again that’s true of Perv Bob in the men’s room without a wig.  It’s already illegal, you already have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt to get a conviction regardless of which room it’s in and whether the person is wearing a wig.  And frankly the result of the bathroom laws is MORE people who present as men in the women’s room.  You’re forcing them to be there.

Making it so using the restroom and minding your own business is the crime, rather than the spying or assaulting you’re worried might happen, is frankly just the same byproduct of bigotry that we’ve seen throughout this country’s history.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2023, 05:20:14 PM by spark mandrill »
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ILLove1997

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3340 on: June 06, 2023, 05:39:59 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 04:34:57 PM
"bigots are scared of trans people".  No shit?

They're not scared they are disgusted, big difference.

Although I'm sure children are scared because its creepy and unnatural.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3341 on: June 06, 2023, 05:46:44 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 05:17:21 PM
But again that’s true of Perv Bob in the men’s room without a wig.  It’s already illegal, you already have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt to get a conviction regardless of which room it’s in and whether the person is wearing a wig.  And frankly the result of the bathroom laws is MORE people who present as men in the women’s room.  You’re forcing them to be there.

Making it so using the restroom and minding your own business is the crime, rather than the spying or assaulting you’re worried might happen, is frankly just the same byproduct of bigotry that we’ve seen throughout this country’s history.

Perv Bob in drag is going to falsely claim he is conforming to his gender when in the women's room.  A bathroom bill would prohibit that defense and make it easier to prosecute Perv Bob for merely being in the bathroom.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3342 on: June 06, 2023, 05:48:06 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 06, 2023, 05:16:14 PM
I mean, I doubt anything I say is going to change the mind of someone who thought “I’ll cut his dick off” was a reasonable response to a trans person using the same restroom as his daughter.

I can only think of one group that benefits from the “don’t call out bigotry” point of view.

1. You may want to try.

2. Your side is not going to benefit either, I can tell you that.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3343 on: June 06, 2023, 05:50:01 PM »
Quote from: ILLove1997 on June 06, 2023, 05:39:59 PM
They're not scared they are disgusted, big difference.

Although I'm sure children are scared because its creepy and unnatural.

Can always count on QAnon97 to say the right thing.... :o
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IlliniGolf

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #3344 on: June 06, 2023, 06:06:25 PM »
Quote from: ILLove1997 on June 06, 2023, 05:39:59 PM
They're not scared they are disgusted, big difference.

Although I'm sure children are scared because its creepy and unnatural.

This is exactly right !

Spark should spend less time white knighting for trans folks on a message board and more time advocating for the mental help they so desperately need !
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