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wtf is wrong with the right?

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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1185 on: August 05, 2021, 08:44:56 PM »
Nichi can't recover from a Mn post citing NPR.
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ridingthegrange

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1186 on: August 05, 2021, 10:46:18 PM »
Even though my background is science, "Science Friday" pulls my trigger.
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fucking

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1187 on: August 06, 2021, 12:23:17 AM »
Ask Dr. Science was the best.
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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1188 on: August 06, 2021, 02:08:01 AM »
Quote from: Mn on August 05, 2021, 07:54:31 PM
https://news.stlpublicradio.org/government-politics-issues/2021-04-29/budget-sent-to-st-louis-board-of-aldermen-cuts-police-spending-directs-money-to-social-services.

"The police department has routinely spent more on overtime than was allocated since 2012. But it has managed to stay within its overall budget by spending the salaries meant for the vacant positions on overtime instead."

Sounds like....
We havent filled the positions, so we use what's left in the budget to pay overtime.
Everybody uses budget. Not using budget means a departmental budget cut in the next budget negotiations.
So we're not cutting positions, we're just moving the money spent on overtime somewhere else.
"positions that have been vacant". Lol

So the counter argument is they need the 4 million from the 98 long vacant police positions for overtime?  Is it possible, if crime prevention programs work, the police won't need so much overtime? We are talking about a city that currently has more than 1300 police officers and a $171 million police budget.

Can you explain how plans to reallocate the money toward crime prevention retroactively caused a crime wave?  That's the Republican talking point. They are saying plans to "defund" police; which have yet to be carried out, are causing an urban crime wave.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 02:24:44 AM by illiniray »
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1189 on: August 06, 2021, 07:04:47 AM »
From a year ago ...
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/morale-of-st-louis-officers-being-drained-in-challenging-time-for-police-chief-says/article_d5978d68-04c3-564c-81ce-19f96fe7bfcb.html
ST. LOUIS — A troubling surge in homicides coupled with the coronavirus pandemic and civil unrest has led to one of the most challenging times in decades for St. Louis police as officer morale is “being drained,” police Chief John Hayden said Tuesday.

Officers often are rushing from one homicide scene to the next or from one protest to another, he said. “It’s just extremely demanding,” he said. “More demanding than I’ve seen as a St. Louis police officer in 33½ years.”
“I have never been to a community meeting in my career where citizens asked for less police presence,” he said. “The people who live in those communities want more police, and if 90% of my budget is salaries and benefits I don’t know how that phrase (defund) fits into the St. Louis challenge.”

https://www.kmov.com/news/rate-of-officers-leaving-st-louis-police-department-significantly-increasing/article_128b3de2-eb46-11eb-919a-f3ff5f3c733f.html
"In 2019, there were 95 commissioned officers that left the department, for whatever reason. In 2020, the number was 92. But in 2021, there were 92 officers that had left by July 19. If the departures continue at the current rate, the police department could lose 168 officers by the end of the year. That would be an 83% increase over the previous year.

"It's hard to keep the officers that we have happy with the current situation and I think morale is low, morale is low," said President of the Ethical Society of Police Sgt. Donny Walton."

If morale is low, people start looking for work elsewhere. They don't necessaily wait for the city council to make a July 2021 move to erode morale further. When morale is low, job performance suffers, and employee turnover is detrimental to running any business.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 07:08:02 AM by Mn »
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1190 on: August 06, 2021, 08:39:12 AM »
Mn is smoking Nichi. Sad!
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1191 on: August 06, 2021, 02:38:08 PM »
Quote from: Jobu on August 06, 2021, 01:11:58 PM
There's a youtube video of two super old dudes fighting in the street.  It's fucking hilarious.  I think Mn and Nichi should re-create it.  Because watching old dudes fist fight in the street is awesome.
My gut feeling is we're both smarter than that. We might hurt ourselves.
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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1192 on: August 06, 2021, 03:59:11 PM »
Quote from: Mn on August 06, 2021, 07:04:47 AM
From a year ago ...
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/morale-of-st-louis-officers-being-drained-in-challenging-time-for-police-chief-says/article_d5978d68-04c3-564c-81ce-19f96fe7bfcb.html
ST. LOUIS — A troubling surge in homicides coupled with the coronavirus pandemic and civil unrest has led to one of the most challenging times in decades for St. Louis police as officer morale is “being drained,” police Chief John Hayden said Tuesday.

Thank you. In other words, you admit the  crime surge and related problems began in 2020, before Jones was mayor. So it is clear that defunding the police did not create a crime wave in St. Louis. In other words, Fox News is lying. Again.

The only point they might have is that Mayor Jones's so-called defund the police policies; which have not even been implemented yet, will make it worse.

We went over this. It eliminates 98 long vacant  positions from a police force of over 1300 officers and 400 civilian employees. It diverts $4 million from police overtime to  crime prevention. That is not even Camden style defunding.

Big shock. Their top cop thinks crime prevention  won't work.

Meanwhile, St. Louis is getting a crap load of Biden money that can be used for police overtime....

But what about Jones doubling her own security detail? 

« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 05:18:27 PM by illiniray »
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1193 on: August 07, 2021, 06:29:10 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on August 06, 2021, 03:59:11 PM
Thank you. In other words, you admit the  crime surge and related problems began in 2020, before Jones was mayor. So it is clear that defunding the police did not create a crime wave in St. Louis. In other words, Fox News is lying. Again.

The only point they might have is that Mayor Jones's so-called defund the police policies; which have not even been implemented yet, will make it worse.

We went over this. It eliminates 98 long vacant  positions from a police force of over 1300 officers and 400 civilian employees. It diverts $4 million from police overtime to  crime prevention. That is not even Camden style defunding.

Big shock. Their top cop thinks crime prevention  won't work.

Meanwhile, St. Louis is getting a crap load of Biden money that can be used for police overtime....

But what about Jones doubling her own security detail? 


What about Jones doubling her own security detail ?
I really don't care, but it sounds as tho she may have. Or maybe more than doubled ?
https://www.kmov.com/news/investigations/sources-say-mayor-jones-doubled-her-security-as-she-cut-city-police-positions/article_331182c8-a952-11eb-9ac5-6b2864a7a2ad.html
Under former St. Louis Mayor Lyda Krewson, only two police officers were assigned to her security detail. According to a spokesperson for the police union, when Mayor Jones took office, she doubled the number to four.

A second police source also confirmed the number is greater than it was before. However, the police department told us they would not officially disclose the number of assigned officers and wouldn't tell us why not.

KMOV doesn't appear to be a Fox affiliate.

Could you link these quotes from Fox claiming defunding the police caused the crime wave ?
You have gone from an alleged urban crime wave, to implying a cause of a surge in crime, to creating the crime wave.
Why are some cities allocating funding back to policing ?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2021, 07:03:28 AM by Mn »
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Reacher

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1194 on: August 07, 2021, 10:52:51 AM »
Quote from: Custard on May 27, 2020, 09:49:44 PM
I think most people who “back the badge” don’t condone this type of behavior.

I’d say most of us here probably know or have known a lot of police officers over the years. In my opinion they generally fall into two camps. 1) People looking for a stable career and feel they’re doing a civic duty and 2) people who are bullies or were bullied and want to have some kind of power.

These types of incidents are probably almost all attributable to the latter type. But law enforcement personnel have a difficult job and they’re expected to handle all these run-ins with all types of criminals who harass and bait and curse at them, spit on them, threaten to kill their families, etc whether they signed up for civic duty or to have power over people.

Of course they know what they’re signing up for when they join the ranks, but a lot of these people are coming on in their early 20s thinking they’re going to be Crockett and Tubbs and then they’re either shuffling papers or breaking up domestic disputes or seeing horrible shit they can never forget that haunts them the rest of their lives.

By the time they really figure it out they’re far enough into their careers they feel trapped into remaining in law enforcement and that creates a vicious circle. The verbal abuse, the the constant threat to ones’ personal and family’s safety, the stress, anxiety, depression.

It’s a pretty shitty and thankless job they also attracts a certain element of shitty and resentful people. Considering the mental load these people carry day in and day our and the number of potentially violent run ins they have with all types of potentially dangerous people, mistakes are going to be made.

On the other hand things like this awful incident unfortunately end up as a political football pitting right vs left when it’s really a ridiculously tiny percentage of power hungry jerkoffs that end up doing something like this.

The conversation shouldn’t be about political affiliation, it should be about making sure police departments are properly vetting candidates, training their people properly, and giving them easy access to QUALITY mental health care to help them cope with the immense mental toll the job inherently entails.

Like Murph, I had a similar situation years ago when I was pulled over in Indiana for speeding fairly late at night. I was traveling to Indy for a meeting and the officer got me for 54 in a 35. I was incensed because I had clearly passed the 55 mph sign before I sped up to 54. I said go back and look at where you were sitting and where the 55 mph sign is. That just pissed him off so he wrote me a ticket. I went to court and pled my case with pictures showing where the 55 sign was and the driveway the cop was sitting in when he clocked me, and they threw it out.

As much as we don’t like it, the best policy when confronted with a real or imaginary wrong doing is probably to be calm and respectful and let justice do its job when the time comes. Whether we like it or not, getting shitty with a cop is almost always going to end up making things more difficult than they’d have been otherwise.

I also realize I am a white middle class male, and am less likely statistically to 1) Be pulled over 2) have some sort of citation or charges pressed against me than a black male would. But until we have police with no power and/or emotions, it’s probably best for everyone to act like a reasonable adult when there is a confrontation with law enforcement. Whether a person is innocent or guilty af just let it run it’s course and if and when there’s a court date let the evidence and your civility do the talking.

I only read the first sentence, but the vast majority of people I’ve talk to who “back the badge” defend their actions no matter what they’ve done.
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ILLove1997

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1195 on: August 07, 2021, 11:57:57 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on August 07, 2021, 10:52:51 AM
I only read the first sentence, but the vast majority of people I’ve talk to who “back the badge” defend their actions no matter what they’ve done.

you should probably read the rest of the post
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Reacher

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1196 on: August 07, 2021, 12:17:31 PM »
Quote from: ILLove1997 on August 07, 2021, 11:57:57 AM
you should probably read the rest of the post

IDK, it’s really long…
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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1197 on: August 07, 2021, 03:35:21 PM »
Quote from: Mn on August 07, 2021, 06:29:10 AM
What about Jones doubling her own security detail ?

From what I gather, as I noted previously, her security detail was increased from 2 to 4.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1198 on: August 07, 2021, 04:01:20 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on August 07, 2021, 03:35:21 PM
From what I gather, as I noted previously, her security detail was increased from 2 to 4.

She wants to defund the police for everyone but her?
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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1199 on: August 07, 2021, 04:08:27 PM »
Quote from: Mn on August 07, 2021, 06:29:10 AM
Could you link these quotes from Fox claiming defunding the police caused the crime wave ?

Turn on the Five or Gutfeld. It's one of several recurring themes. 
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