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wtf is wrong with the right?

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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #8775 on: June 04, 2026, 02:53:34 PM »
The census counts all individuals for Congressional seat apportionment.
The census count doesn't eliminate non-citizens.
The census count doesn't count voter registrations.
The census count doesn't count voting age recipients.
The case before SCOTUS was a result of the 2020 U.S. census so the DOJ used census data in their brief.

Did you read Alito's opinion ?

The census doesn't eliminate infant and children either. However, Alito and DoJ didn't count them in their denominator to calculate voter turnout. They used voter age population; which excludes infants and children, but includes felons, resident aliens, and illegal aliens.

 👀
both the Voting Age Population (VAP) and the Citizen Voting Age Population (CVAP) are derived from the U.S. Census Bureau's data programs.

1. Voting Age Population (VAP)Definition: Everyone residing in the United States who is 18 years of age and older.

*How it is derived: It is extracted directly from the official Decennial Census count (the 10-year population count) and updated annually using demographic and administrative records through the Population Estimates Program.

2. Citizen Voting Age Population (CVAP)Definition: The subset of the VAP consisting strictly of U.S. citizens who are 18 or older.

*How it is derived: Because the standard Decennial Census does not ask about citizenship, CVAP is derived using an annual special tabulation from the American Community Survey (ACS). The Census Bureau uses the ACS 5-year estimates to calculate a statistically robust, multi-year average of citizen status, broken down by race, ethnicity, and geography.


“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #8776 on: June 04, 2026, 08:24:35 PM »
The census doesn't eliminate infant and children either. However, Alito and DoJ didn't count them in their denominator to calculate voter turnout. They used voter age population; which excludes infants and children, but includes felons, resident aliens, and illegal aliens.

 👀
both the Voting Age Population (VAP) and the Citizen Voting Age Population (CVAP) are derived from the U.S. Census Bureau's data programs.

1. Voting Age Population (VAP)Definition: Everyone residing in the United States who is 18 years of age and older.

*How it is derived: It is extracted directly from the official Decennial Census count (the 10-year population count) and updated annually using demographic and administrative records through the Population Estimates Program.

2. Citizen Voting Age Population (CVAP)Definition: The subset of the VAP consisting strictly of U.S. citizens who are 18 or older.

*How it is derived: Because the standard Decennial Census does not ask about citizenship, CVAP is derived using an annual special tabulation from the American Community Survey (ACS). The Census Bureau uses the ACS 5-year estimates to calculate a statistically robust, multi-year average of citizen status, broken down by race, ethnicity, and geography.



I take it the answer to the question would be a "no".

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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #8777 on: June 04, 2026, 11:20:31 PM »
I take it the answer to the question would be a "no".

You can take ignoring a question anyway you wish. Maybe I did, maybe I don't. It's nunayo beeswax.

Did you read Alito's pedantic opinion, Clarence's idiotic concurrence, and Kagan's brilliant dissent? I don't care. It is not relevant to the discussion. People get paid to wade through that crap and summarize the key points. We don't..

The census bureau provides both voting age and citizen voting age numbers. DoJ /.Alito chose to use voting age population numbers even though it gives a less accurate picture of turnout. I think we both know why..
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #8778 on: June 05, 2026, 05:27:22 AM »
From the opinion .....

"First, vast social change has occurred throughout the
country and particularly in the South, where many §2 suits
arise. As this Court has recognized, “things have changed
dramatically” in the decades since the passage of the Voting
Rights Act. Shelby County v. Holder, 570 U. S. 529, 547
(2013). At the time of the Act’s passage, the Nation had
faced
nearly a century of “entrenched racial discrimination
in voting, ‘an insidious and pervasive evil which had been
perpetuated in certain parts of our country through unre-
mitting and ingenious defiance of the Constitution.’” Id., at
535 (quoting Katzenbach, 383 U. S., at 309). But the Voting
Rights Act led to “great strides”
in the ensuing decades:
“voting tests were abolished, disparities in voter registra-
tion and turnout due to race were erased, and African-
Americans attained political office in record numbers.” 570
U. S., at 549, 553. By 2004, the racial gap in voter registration and turnout had largely disappeared, with mi-
norities registering and voting at levels that sometimes sur-
passed the majority. Id., at 547–548. Black voters now par-
ticipate in elections at similar rates as the rest of the
electorate, even turning out at higher rates than white vot-
ers in two of the five most recent Presidential elections na-
tionwide and in Louisiana.
See Supp. Brief for United
States as Amicus Curiae 13 (citing Dept. of Commerce, Cen-
sus Bureau, Voting and Registration Tables (Election of
Nov. 2024) (Apr. 2025))."

From AI, including the question that matches the words in the opinion ....

"Did Black voters turn out at higher rates than white vot-
ers in two of the five most recent Presidential elections na-
tionwide and in Louisiana
.

Yes, nationwide (and in the South, including Louisiana patterns), this holds for 2008 and 2012 among the five most recent presidential elections (2008, 2012, 2016, 2020, 2024).
census.gov
Nationwide (U.S. Census Bureau CPS data)
U.S. Census Bureau reports (citizen voting-age population turnout) show:
2008: Black turnout ~64.7–66%; non-Hispanic White ~64–66%. They reached near parity, with Black often slightly higher or matching in key measures (driven by high enthusiasm for Obama).
census.gov
2012: Black turnout 66.2% vs. non-Hispanic White 64.1%. This was the first time Black turnout clearly exceeded White since consistent tracking began.
census.gov
2016: Black ~59.6% vs. White ~65.3% (White higher).
pewresearch.org
2020: Black ~63% vs. White ~71% (White higher; Black below its 2008 peak).
census.gov
2024: Black ~59–60% vs. White ~70–71% (White higher; gap widened).
usafacts.org"

I wonder if the writers at The New Republic and the Guardian read the source document or used the opinion statement in AI.



« Last Edit: June 05, 2026, 05:39:41 AM by Somewhere in Mn »

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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #8779 on: June 05, 2026, 09:55:51 AM »
Thanks for taking the time to confirm the points I have been trying to make.

Cherry-Picked Elections: Critics noted that the two elections Alito referenced where Black turnout reached parity were 2008 and 2012—the specific years Barack Obama was on the ballot. In the three presidential elections since, the racial turnout gap has widened significantly.
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #8780 on: June 05, 2026, 10:39:55 AM »
Thanks for taking the time to confirm the points I have been trying to make.

Cherry-Picked Elections: Critics noted that the two elections Alito referenced where Black turnout reached parity were 2008 and 2012—the specific years Barack Obama was on the ballot. In the three presidential elections since, the racial turnout gap has widened significantly.
2 of the last 5 is 2 of the last 5, which supports the brief.
Thanks for sharing the trash from the Guardian and The New Republic who cherry picked to make their "fudged" data claim with a different "methodology."
Who's fudging who ?


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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #8781 on: June 05, 2026, 03:06:27 PM »
2 of the last 5 is 2 of the last 5, which supports the brief.
Thanks for sharing the trash from the Guardian and The New Republic who cherry picked to make their "fudged" data claim with a different "methodology."
Who's fudging who ?

Fine. Obama didn't actually boost black turnout and black turnout didn't actually decline quite a bit in relation to whites subsequently.

Also, using the voting age population is the standard way of calculating voter turnout. In fact, it's even better to use total population.

You were right. These is no more implicit racism and black voter turnout when Obama ran for President and using voting age population is certainly strong evidence to support that.

Sorry I wasted your time.
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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murphstahoe

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #8782 on: June 05, 2026, 03:44:02 PM »

Sorry I wasted your time.Wh

Who wasted whose time here?

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #8783 on: June 06, 2026, 06:57:12 AM »
Thanks for taking the time to confirm the points I have been trying to make.

Cherry-Picked Elections: Critics noted that the two elections Alito referenced where Black turnout reached parity were 2008 and 2012—the specific years Barack Obama was on the ballot. In the three presidential elections since, the racial turnout gap has widened significantly.
"In the three presidential elections since, the racial turnout gap has widened significantly."

If only the writers had written that maybe it's the candidates that kept the Black voters home after they had been given a candidate to turn out for on par with white voters in 2008 and 2012.

Nah. How about if we write that SCOTUS used fudged census.gov data ?
We'll go with that.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2026, 07:02:49 AM by Somewhere in Mn »

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murphstahoe

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #8784 on: June 06, 2026, 12:36:22 PM »
Fine. Obama didn't actually boost black turnout and black turnout didn't actually decline quite a bit in relation to whites subsequently.

Also, using the voting age population is the standard way of calculating voter turnout. In fact, it's even better to use total population.

You were right. These is no more implicit racism and black voter turnout when Obama ran for President and using voting age population is certainly strong evidence to support that.

Sorry I wasted your time.


This is all such a circle jerk. This country goes to hell when we start trying to bend around legal minutia. Laws are written by a bunch of assholes. Sometimes they correlate with ethical morality.

There's no question that these various states are making a conscious choice - "We do not want any black representatives nor Democrats in our congressional delegation". I personally think, that if a state is upwards of 25% black people, it's a very good thing if ~25% of their reps are black. Same for partisan makeup. That way our government has, at the top level, people who can point out things that people who don't have the perspective won't see.

But what we have is corrupt people like Trump wanting to get power in order to gobble up a bunch of money, so they want a congress that enables them, and the easiest way to do that is to exploit base racism in a bunch of poorly educated rubes. Also: Trump is a racist himself so it's a double win.

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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #8785 on: June 06, 2026, 04:49:23 PM »
I can't resist. No one objected to using to census data. That is a classic straw man. I don't think it's intentional though.

The objection was using the voting age population for the denominator to calculate voter turnout, even though some other options derived from the census, producing more accurate results,  are available.
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #8786 on: June 06, 2026, 06:16:41 PM »
The DoD/W has trimmed the Military's list of officially recognized religions from 211 to 31 

A memorandum to this effect iss signed by suspected bigot and  Under Secretary of Defense/War Anthony Tata..

The Unitarian Universalists, who have what, about 150,000 members? Have apparently objected.

The new list includes:
Agnostic (AN)
Baha'i faith (BH)
Buddhism (BU)
Hindu (HI)
Islam (Muslim) (IS)
Judaism (Jewish) (JU)
No Religion (NR)
Other Religions (OR)
Sikh (SI)

The other 22 are all flavors of Christianity.

Eliminated groups included Atheists, Asatru, Confucianists, Daoists,  Deists, Druids, Eckankar, Heathens, Humanists, Magick, New Age churches, Pagan, Rosicrucianism, Shaman, Spiritualists, Troth, Unitarian Universalists and various Wiccans..

My thoughts are (1) specified recognized faiths should balance actual need with equality. (2) The abundance of Christian denominations with all the others under one umbrella probably reflects a bias.

https://www.military.com/dod-officially-drops-180-faiths-from-militarys-recognized-religion-list
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Reacher

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #8787 on: June 06, 2026, 07:12:07 PM »
Seems all these stories coming out about Platner have all the earmarks of a coordinated hit piece. Why wait till now? If the media has such a huge "liberal bias" why are we not getting similar stories on Ken Paxton?

https://youtube.com/shorts/gD6EXp5T-ZI?si=cac39I8e87eJ49RX
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

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Reacher

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #8788 on: June 06, 2026, 07:43:56 PM »
Collins hiding 400k in stock holdings (everybody does it!). But at least she doesn’t have a shitty tattoo!

https://x.com/gop__ls/status/2063294823927255153?s=46&t=taZJ_d5ITWr6Hq3PUZDUiQ
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

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murphstahoe

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #8789 on: June 07, 2026, 06:20:08 PM »
Collins hiding 400k in stock holdings (everybody does it!). But at least she doesn’t have a shitty tattoo!

https://x.com/gop__ls/status/2063294823927255153?s=46&t=taZJ_d5ITWr6Hq3PUZDUiQ

Stock trades != Stock Holdings but still a bad look.

Sort of like CNN saying Trump was +4 vs Harris, and now has a 27% net disapproval so he dropped by 31%. They aren't comparing apples to oranges.