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WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?

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murphstahoe

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Facts. No bike lanes in rural Kentucky and no fucks given when you don’t let them pass when you’re doing 22 in 65.

Unless the guy on the bike is your fentanyl dealer. Then you stop for a hand off.

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murphstahoe

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Vegas has turned into an LA/SF like shithole where everything is overpriced and freaks and tweakers dominate the landscape. It’s dirty and unsafe. Not even remotely the same place it was before Covid. Can’t even count how many people I have heard say in the last year or two that they’ll never go back.

The strip has always been a freak show. Where you been? But yeah, we Californians have priced out the Kentucky tweakers. It's still so inexpensive that we have money left over to gobble up your real estate.

https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/1421100503994756144?guests=1&adults=1&s=67&unique_share_id=52296d3c-4c7a-43fe-8112-137c05a0a3a8&source_impression_id=p3_1755106391_P36wzShQqWld6VtT

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Custard

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Unless the guy on the bike is your fentanyl dealer. Then you stop for a hand off.

Fentanyl dealer drives the nicest car in town!
Poster Boy for White Male Indifference

AOTC on basically everything measurable

“Custard, you were RIGHT!” -Tempo

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murphstahoe

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Oh, it's the DC policies that may be the problem ?
Who knew ? Lol

Your reading comprehension problems continue. The problematic policies are Federal, hamstringing DC. Instead of fixing those problems - because that would mean more work for Pam Bondi - they just forced a bunch of National Guardsmen to go wander around DC instead of preparing for hurricane season.

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murphstahoe

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Fentanyl dealer drives the nicest car in town!

True. That cyclist better watch out, all the drivers are hopped up. Because you know, a bunch of Mexicans cast a voodoo spell on rural Kentucky and caused them to inject fentanyl.

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murphstahoe

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Ray has been beating the drum for an alternative approach to policing inner cities for years. I’m all for trying different things but I’d also like to see some successful examples in crime ridden American inner cities where actual police presence was reduced and replaced with social programs and these other things he preaches.

How much revenue does Deep Blue Democrat Chicago raise in a year? Why can’t they do anything about Garfield Park or Back of the Yards? Why are people pissing on trees at PAMan’s park?!?!

I’m kind of tired of the left blaming everything on the system and the policies and history and the police and economics and completely glossing over obvious deeply ingrained generational cultural and other issues. It’s so eye roll generic.


Me too. They just need to round them up and give them a one way bus ticket back home to Kentucky

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Custard

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Me too. They just need to round them up and give them a one way bus ticket back home to Kentucky

I’d say any of them that can find Kentucky on a map gets a “Get Out of Central Illinois Free” card.
Poster Boy for White Male Indifference

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“Custard, you were RIGHT!” -Tempo

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murphstahoe

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I’d say any of them that can find Kentucky on a map gets a “Get Out of Central Illinois Free” card.

they don't need to find kentucky - just the door to the bus

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illiniray

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We don't have a lot of examples where resources were diverted from law enforcement to crime prevention. We do have individual success stories.

OTOH, we do know getting tough on crime is a band side solution at best.
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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Hal9000

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We don't have a lot of examples where resources were diverted from law enforcement to crime prevention. We do have individual success stories.

OTOH, we do know getting tough on crime is a band side solution at best.


Hello again, illiniray. I must remind you that the 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 computer has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof and incapable of error.

Here are a few concrete examples where governments or communities have reallocated resources from traditional law enforcement toward crime prevention initiatives:

1. Camden, New Jersey (2013 Police Department Overhaul)

The city disbanded its municipal police department and created a county-run force.

Part of the budget was shifted to community policing, officer training in de-escalation, and outreach programs.

Officers spent more time walking beats and engaging residents rather than focusing solely on arrests, aiming to build trust and prevent crime before it happened.

2. Eugene, Oregon – CAHOOTS Program

A portion of the police budget funds Crisis Assistance Helping Out On The Streets (CAHOOTS), which sends unarmed medics and crisis workers to respond to mental health calls instead of police.

By diverting these calls, police resources are freed for serious crimes, and mental health crises are addressed before they escalate into criminal incidents.

3. Glasgow, Scotland – Violence Reduction Unit (VRU)

Initially funded in part by shifting resources from policing operations, the VRU treated violence as a public health issue.

Funds went into education, mentoring, and job training for at-risk youth, as well as domestic violence prevention.

The approach contributed to a dramatic drop in knife crime.

4. Minneapolis, Minnesota – Youth Violence Prevention Initiatives

Following budget debates in 2020–2021, some funds originally earmarked for police overtime were redirected toward violence interrupters, youth employment programs, and housing support, aiming to address root causes of crime.

5. Boston, Massachusetts – Operation Ceasefire

While still a policing initiative, parts of its budget shifted toward community partnerships, social services, and gang intervention programs to reduce youth gun violence.

This included mentoring, job placement, and education rather than solely increased patrols or arrests.

If you want, I can also give you historical examples from the 1980s and 1990s, when U.S. cities first began experimenting with shifting resources toward prevention programs instead of purely expanding police forces.
Just what do you think you're doing, illiniray?

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Custard

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Hello again, illiniray. I must remind you that the 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 computer has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof and incapable of error.

Here are a few concrete examples where governments or communities have reallocated resources from traditional law enforcement toward crime prevention initiatives:

1. Camden, New Jersey (2013 Police Department Overhaul)

The city disbanded its municipal police department and created a county-run force.

Part of the budget was shifted to community policing, officer training in de-escalation, and outreach programs.

Officers spent more time walking beats and engaging residents rather than focusing solely on arrests, aiming to build trust and prevent crime before it happened.

2. Eugene, Oregon – CAHOOTS Program

A portion of the police budget funds Crisis Assistance Helping Out On The Streets (CAHOOTS), which sends unarmed medics and crisis workers to respond to mental health calls instead of police.

By diverting these calls, police resources are freed for serious crimes, and mental health crises are addressed before they escalate into criminal incidents.

3. Glasgow, Scotland – Violence Reduction Unit (VRU)

Initially funded in part by shifting resources from policing operations, the VRU treated violence as a public health issue.

Funds went into education, mentoring, and job training for at-risk youth, as well as domestic violence prevention.

The approach contributed to a dramatic drop in knife crime.

4. Minneapolis, Minnesota – Youth Violence Prevention Initiatives

Following budget debates in 2020–2021, some funds originally earmarked for police overtime were redirected toward violence interrupters, youth employment programs, and housing support, aiming to address root causes of crime.

5. Boston, Massachusetts – Operation Ceasefire

While still a policing initiative, parts of its budget shifted toward community partnerships, social services, and gang intervention programs to reduce youth gun violence.

This included mentoring, job placement, and education rather than solely increased patrols or arrests.

If you want, I can also give you historical examples from the 1980s and 1990s, when U.S. cities first began experimenting with shifting resources toward prevention programs instead of purely expanding police forces.

Hello, Hal.

Can you share some details as to the effectiveness of these programs and why they haven’t been adopted on a larger scale here in the states?
Poster Boy for White Male Indifference

AOTC on basically everything measurable

“Custard, you were RIGHT!” -Tempo

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Somewhere in Mn

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Hal, is what he's saying about crime under the 3 term mayor true ?

https://x.com/i/status/1955965656194548105

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Hal9000

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Hello, Hal.

Can you share some details as to the effectiveness of these programs and why they haven’t been adopted on a larger scale here in the states?


Short answer: results are mixed but often promising—when the shift is well-targeted and well-implemented. The strongest evidence comes from a few categories:

1) Civilian first-response for mental/behavioral health (money moved from patrol to clinicians/medics).

Denver’s clinician-led STAR program cut police-reported low-level offenses in treated areas without increasing serious crime, according to peer-reviewed analyses; city and Urban Institute reports also document smooth implementation and cost advantages.

Eugene’s long-running CAHOOTS diverted thousands of 911 calls from police; recent research finds it can substitute for some police responses and reduce costs while maintaining safety.

Albuquerque’s Community Safety department is scaling non-police responders for behavioral health and low-risk calls, with city reports showing growing diversion capacity.

2) Community Violence Intervention (CVI) / “violence interrupters.”

Evaluations of Cure Violence / Safe Streets show site-to-site variation: some neighborhoods see meaningful drops in shootings/homicides; others show null results. Recent Baltimore work finds reductions in several sites, while St. Louis reported no significant effect early on. New meta-/scoping reviews emphasize implementation quality as a key driver.

3) Focused deterrence (a hybrid of enforcement + services).

While not a pure “defund” model, it’s the most consistently effective prevention strategy studied: multiple Campbell/peer-review reviews find moderate, reliable reductions in violent crime when attention and services are concentrated on the small group driving violence.

4) Public-health, citywide prevention (e.g., Glasgow/Scotland).

Scotland’s long public-health push (VRU) coincided with large drops in homicide/serious violence over the 2005–2018 period, but researchers note multiple contributing factors and cautions about attributing all gains to the reallocation alone.

What this means for “reallocate vs. police”
Targeted reallocation works best. Moving some calls to trained civilian teams and funding credible-messenger outreach can reduce low-level crime, cut arrests, and, in some places, shootings—if programs are well staffed, integrated with 911, and consistently funded.

Expect heterogeneous outcomes. CVI effects vary widely by neighborhood and fidelity; treating it as a plug-and-play replacement usually disappoints.


Keeping an enforcement backstop matters. The best-evidenced violence reductions come from focused deterrence, which pairs limited, precise enforcement pressure with real services—i.e., rebalancing resources rather than abandoning policing.

If you want, I can sketch a sample reallocation mix (e.g., % to civilian response, % to CVI, % to data-driven hot-spots/focused-deterrence) and the metrics cities track (call diversion rate, use-of-force incidents, shootings per 100k, response times, program cost per diverted call).






There are a few overlapping reasons why more towns and communities haven’t widely implemented large-scale reallocations from traditional law enforcement to prevention-focused programs—most of them come down to money, politics, uncertainty, and logistics:

1. Political & Cultural Resistance
“Defunding” stigma: Even if a program isn’t about abolishing police, shifting funds away from police budgets can trigger political backlash, especially in communities with strong support for law enforcement or where crime fears are high.

Police union influence: Unions often lobby hard against budget reallocations that reduce staffing or overtime, framing them as threats to public safety.

Public perception: Many residents equate “more officers” with “more safety,” making it harder to sell prevention programs that don’t look like traditional policing.

2. Budget Structure & Funding Rules
Earmarked funds: Police budgets are often locked into multi-year labor contracts and pension obligations, leaving little discretionary money to shift.

One-time grants vs. sustained funding: Federal or philanthropic grants can start pilot programs, but ongoing local funding is harder to secure once initial money runs out.

Fragmented responsibilities: Mental health, housing, and social services are often funded and managed separately from public safety, so shifting resources requires cross-department coordination that many cities aren’t set up for.

3. Implementation Challenges
911 call triage: To divert calls, dispatch systems need to accurately distinguish which situations don’t require police—a skill that requires retraining and upgraded technology.

Workforce shortages: Hiring trained clinicians, outreach workers, and violence interrupters is hard in a tight labor market; burnout is also high in these fields.

Integration with police: Programs work best when police and alternative responders coordinate, but building trust between them can take years.

4. Evidence Gaps & Risk Aversion
Uneven results: While some programs (like Denver’s STAR) show strong benefits, others (like certain Cure Violence sites) have mixed or null results. This variability makes cautious city leaders hesitant to gamble scarce funds.

Local fit concerns: A program that works in Denver or Glasgow might not translate smoothly to a smaller rural town or a city with different crime patterns.

Fear of blame: If a city cuts police funding and crime spikes—even for unrelated reasons—politicians risk losing their jobs.

5. Short-Term vs. Long-Term Payoffs
Prevention is slow: It can take years for prevention to reduce crime measurably, but political and media pressures demand quick results.

Crisis response bias: Leaders often prioritize visible, immediate responses (patrols, arrests) over investments that quietly reduce harm over time.

If you want, I can map out case studies of cities that tried these shifts but faced setbacks—including exactly what obstacles stopped them—so you can see the recurring patterns that keep these programs from scaling.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2025, 11:58:55 AM by Hal9000 »
Just what do you think you're doing, illiniray?

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Hal9000

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Hal, is what he's saying about crime under the 3 term mayor true ?

https://x.com/i/status/1955965656194548105

I’m sorry No one in Mn, I don’t have enough information.
Just what do you think you're doing, illiniray?

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alum74

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https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-called-norway-finance-minister-ask-about-nobel-peace-prize/

During the call, Trump inquired whether Stoltenberg was interested in an extended warranty or undercoating for his vehicle.

The price of no peace prize will be 2000% tariffs on Norwegian products and no invites to Mar-a-Lago.