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WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?

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illiniray

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #3825 on: March 02, 2025, 10:30:38 PM »
Accountability?

Quote
The invasion of Ukraine also violated international agreements that Russia is a party to, including:


The 1975 Helsinki Final Act, in which the USSR promised not to violate the "territorial integrity" of other signees, including through the use of force. Russia and Ukraine were both created as a result of the USSR's breakup.

The 1994 Budapest Memorandum, in which Russia, the United States, and the United Kingdom agreed "to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine."

The Minsk agreements, which are a pair of Ceasefire Agreements signed by Russia and Ukraine relating to the conflict between those countries that began in 2014.

Additionally, Ukraine has accused Russia of violating the 1997 Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership – in which Russia and Ukraine agreed to respect each other's territorial integrity and existing borders – through its annexation of Crimea and actions in the Donbas. Ukraine terminated the treaty in December 2018, effective April 2019.[/b]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#:~:text=Additionally%2C%20Ukraine%20has%20accused%20Russia,and%20actions%20in%20the%20Donbas.
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Custard

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #3826 on: March 02, 2025, 11:49:49 PM »
Why shouldn’t we try and get something for the amount of support we’ve given to Ukraine? We’ve spent a disproportionate amount on this relative to countries that have far more to lose. What we’ve collectively been doing the past three years has accomplished nothing. I think Trump is right when he says this wouldn’t have happened if he had been president. Also think there’s been a lot of BS behind the scenes in Ukraine that we don’t fully know about.

The perspectives on this are interesting. The older guys here clearly have a much deeper disdain for Russia than younger generations do. I was a little kid when the Cold War ended. For most of my life I’ve seen Russia as more of an ally rather than an antagonist. The whole Russian collusion hoax you all still cling to really confirms this. A healthy relationship with Russia is good for the west. Isolating them and refusing diplomacy makes them way more dangerous.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #3827 on: March 03, 2025, 02:06:50 AM »
There was no Russian collusion hoax. Trump was suspected of coordinating his campaign with Russia. There was some evidence, but not enough to support this.

There was a finding that Russia interfered in the 2016 election on behalf of Trump, against Clinton.

Trump grossly exaggerates how much we have spent supporting Ukraine. Some of it has been outdated weaponry that was costing us storage expense.

He also downplays what other nations have done. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #3828 on: March 03, 2025, 07:27:47 AM »
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #3829 on: March 03, 2025, 07:33:52 AM »
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/03/02/pentagon-hegseth-orders-spies-russia-cyber-threats/

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2025/03/02/kremlin-says-us-foreign-policy-shift-aligns-with-its-own-vision-a88217

Of course it would not have happened under Trump. He's their man on the inside. No need to try and embarrass him when he is working for your interests already.
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Custard

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #3830 on: March 03, 2025, 09:06:57 AM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 03, 2025, 07:33:52 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/03/02/pentagon-hegseth-orders-spies-russia-cyber-threats/

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2025/03/02/kremlin-says-us-foreign-policy-shift-aligns-with-its-own-vision-a88217

Of course it would not have happened under Trump. He's their man on the inside. No need to try and embarrass him when he is working for your interests already.

Really fascinating stuff. How much land did Russia take from Ukraine while Trump was president?

Now do Obama and Biden.

The Democrat war hawks are pushing us towards WWIII at breakneck speed. The guy in the White House kept us at peace the last time he was there, is trying to do the same now, but you guys aren’t even on his side.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #3831 on: March 03, 2025, 10:53:14 AM »
Quote from: Custard on March 02, 2025, 11:49:49 PM
For most of my life I’ve seen Russia as more of an ally rather than an antagonist.

I did not know you were 347 years old
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #3832 on: March 03, 2025, 10:59:12 AM »
Quote from: Custard on March 02, 2025, 11:49:49 PM
Why shouldn’t we try and get something for the amount of support we’ve given to Ukraine?

We do.

John Deere Inc Sales figures, 2010-2020

Ukraine - 13.7 Billion dollars
Russia - Zero

General Motors Inc Sales figures, 2010-2020
Ukraine - 27.2 Billion dollars
Russia - Zero

US tech firm employees 2024
Ukraine - 27,232
Russia - zero

To be fair on that last point, I know some firms that had some employees in Moscow prior to the Ukraine invasion. In each case, those employees were offered either severance or relocation at the point of the invasion.
Aside from the general dodginess of employing people in Russia, there are technology restrictions meaning that US companies have to go through a lot of hassle restricting access to various parts of the company IP from employess in Russia, and those employees can't add value in certain areas. And because the rules keep changing, it's difficult to assign Russian employees pieces of work from which they might need to be removed from.

Basically - Ukraine is a customer. Russia is not. If Russia takes Ukraine, US Companies lose a major customer.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #3833 on: March 03, 2025, 11:03:25 AM »
Quote from: Custard on March 03, 2025, 09:06:57 AM
The Democrat war hawks are pushing us towards WWIII at breakneck speed. The guy in the White House kept us at peace the last time he was there, is trying to do the same now, but you guys aren’t even on his side.

The only way a "WWIII" happens is with a complete madman in charge of a country with nuclear weapons. No sane leader would ever use nuclear weapons.

If you assert that something the Democrats do would "cause Putin to fire nukes", then Putin is a complete madman. Why do you support a complete madman.

The most ironic event this year is Emmanuel Macron in the Oval Office talking to Donald Trump, and Trump discussing that he wants "Peace" by giving huge chunks of Ukraine to Russia. How times have changed since 1940, now the cheese eating surrender monkey is the US President, not the French one.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #3834 on: March 03, 2025, 11:12:50 AM »
Quote from: Custard on March 03, 2025, 09:06:57 AM
Really fascinating stuff. How much land did Russia take from Ukraine while Trump was president?

Now do Obama and Biden.

The Democrat war hawks are pushing us towards WWIII at breakneck speed. The guy in the White House kept us at peace the last time he was there, is trying to do the same now, but you guys aren’t even on his side.

Why would he try and fuck over Trump? He is doing Putin's work for him, like destroying NATO. You would have been bitching if Obama and Biden did go to war to stop him. They didn't destroy NATO though.

You are going to get WWIII because Europe is now going to get ready for war and have zero reason to listen or kow tow to the US (since we are not going to be paying the bill).

We've seen this movie before. The only winner was the US in that one. Not sure that will be the case this time around.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #3835 on: March 03, 2025, 11:14:39 AM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on March 03, 2025, 10:59:12 AM
We do.

John Deere Inc Sales figures, 2010-2020

Ukraine - 13.7 Billion dollars
Russia - Zero

General Motors Inc Sales figures, 2010-2020
Ukraine - 27.2 Billion dollars
Russia - Zero

US tech firm employees 2024
Ukraine - 27,232
Russia - zero

To be fair on that last point, I know some firms that had some employees in Moscow prior to the Ukraine invasion. In each case, those employees were offered either severance or relocation at the point of the invasion.
Aside from the general dodginess of employing people in Russia, there are technology restrictions meaning that US companies have to go through a lot of hassle restricting access to various parts of the company IP from employess in Russia, and those employees can't add value in certain areas. And because the rules keep changing, it's difficult to assign Russian employees pieces of work from which they might need to be removed from.

Basically - Ukraine is a customer. Russia is not. If Russia takes Ukraine, US Companies lose a major customer.

But Zelensky did not wear a suit.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #3836 on: March 03, 2025, 11:34:28 AM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 03, 2025, 11:14:39 AM
But Zelensky did not wear a suit.

no shit what a fuckin slob.
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Custard

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #3837 on: March 03, 2025, 12:30:06 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on March 03, 2025, 10:59:12 AM
We do.

John Deere Inc Sales figures, 2010-2020

Ukraine - 13.7 Billion dollars
Russia - Zero

General Motors Inc Sales figures, 2010-2020
Ukraine - 27.2 Billion dollars
Russia - Zero

US tech firm employees 2024
Ukraine - 27,232
Russia - zero

To be fair on that last point, I know some firms that had some employees in Moscow prior to the Ukraine invasion. In each case, those employees were offered either severance or relocation at the point of the invasion.
Aside from the general dodginess of employing people in Russia, there are technology restrictions meaning that US companies have to go through a lot of hassle restricting access to various parts of the company IP from employess in Russia, and those employees can't add value in certain areas. And because the rules keep changing, it's difficult to assign Russian employees pieces of work from which they might need to be removed from.

Basically - Ukraine is a customer. Russia is not. If Russia takes Ukraine, US Companies lose a major customer.

Those sales don’t even come close to offsetting what we’ve spent, even if you’re on the side of the “we really haven’t spent that much, we think” group. And we’d be doing way more business with Russia but we slapped them with sanctions that didn’t really seem to do much to hurt them, and completely shut our businesses out of that market.
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Custard

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #3838 on: March 03, 2025, 12:38:23 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 03, 2025, 11:12:50 AM
Why would he try and fuck over Trump? He is doing Putin's work for him, like destroying NATO. You would have been bitching if Obama and Biden did go to war to stop him. They didn't destroy NATO though.

You are going to get WWIII because Europe is now going to get ready for war and have zero reason to listen or kow tow to the US (since we are not going to be paying the bill).

We've seen this movie before. The only winner was the US in that one. Not sure that will be the case this time around.

Doing Putin’s work for him? In his first term he called out that we disproportionately pay for more of NATO than we should, and sought to leverage the fact that they depend on us to get a better deal.

You can spin it however you want, but Putin attacked when the dear old NATO loving Democrats were in office and didn’t when “reckless NATO destroying Trump” was in office. And we didn’t kowtow to weak euro commie leaders who should be kissing our asses.

Under Trump, Ukraine didn’t lose ground, we still did business in Russia, and the world was much more at peace than it’s been the past 4 years under Biden. I know this is hard to digest.
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Custard

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #3839 on: March 03, 2025, 12:46:50 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on March 03, 2025, 11:34:28 AM
no shit what a fuckin slob.

Literally an actor cosplaying military guy to tug at the heart strings of western countries that butter his bread and want to advance their globalist agenda eastward. Pulls it off pretty good, but it’s an act, and more people are starting to see through it.
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