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WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #960 on: December 20, 2023, 02:33:22 PM »
Quote from: ILLove1997 on December 20, 2023, 02:30:52 PM
you didn't say he was wrong though, lol

He's not wrong, but not for the reasons you think....
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ILLove1997

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #961 on: December 20, 2023, 02:38:57 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on December 20, 2023, 02:33:22 PM
He's not wrong, but not for the reasons you think....

oh so you know what I'm thinking now?
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #962 on: December 20, 2023, 02:53:08 PM »
Quote from: ILLove1997 on December 20, 2023, 02:38:57 PM
oh so you know what I'm thinking now?

You do have a history here....
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illiniray

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #963 on: December 20, 2023, 03:07:11 PM »
Quote from: Mn on December 20, 2023, 01:04:05 PM

 

https://reason.com/volokh/2023/12/19/colorado-supreme-court-rules-trump-is-ineligible-for-the-presidency-under-section-3-of-the-14th-amendment/

"It seems most likely that the Presidency is not specifically included because it is so evidently an "office." In fact, no specific office is listed in Section Three; instead, the Section refers to "any office, civil or military." U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 3. True, senators, representatives, and presidential electors are listed, but none of these positions is considered an "office" in the Constitution. Instead, senators and representatives are referred to as "members" of their respective bodies.

I would add that senators, representatives, and electors are less clearly officers than the president, because they do not have individual authority to issue orders to subordinates, a point I expounded on in my Bulwark article."

"the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment only provides a guarantee of due process before a person can be deprived of "life, liberty, or property."

Disqualification under Section 3 doesn't threaten any of these. Loss of eligibility for holding various types of public offices pretty obviously doesn't threaten anyone's life or property rights. And it isn't a threat to liberty, either. No one claims that the Twenty-Second Amendment deprives people of "liberty" merely because they become ineligible for the presidency if they have already served two terms." 

the article also explains why Trump engaged in insurrection and the amendment is  self-executing
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illiniray

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #964 on: December 20, 2023, 03:09:11 PM »
this is less a threat to democracy than term limits
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #965 on: December 20, 2023, 03:52:44 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 20, 2023, 12:37:42 PM
Reason has a good article explaining why any officer includes the highest office. Senators, representatives, and presidential electors are specified because those positions weren't considered "offices" in the Constitution. Due process does not apply since Trump isn't deprived of life, liberty, or property.
https://reason.com/.../seven-fifth-circuit-judges-argue.../

The real irony here of modern kabuki is - the President should be held accountable for such things because the President is not a King. We decided to have a Democracy, whatever form of Democracy you think we have, there are no kings and leaders are accountable to the people.

But how the people who get power want to approach it is not via that general concept - they want to parse the constitution in ways to craft a legal argument and bypass the moral and ethical ones.
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ridingthegrange

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #966 on: December 20, 2023, 05:02:39 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on December 19, 2023, 05:54:24 PM
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/colorado-trump-14th-amendment-12-19-23/index.html

Currently off the ballot in Colorado since he is a traitor. Hmm.

We've been AOTC on women's suffrage, legal pot, legal shrooms, and now this.  Y'all try to keep up now.  We know you'll eventually come around.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #967 on: December 20, 2023, 05:38:01 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 20, 2023, 03:07:11 PM
 

https://reason.com/volokh/2023/12/19/colorado-supreme-court-rules-trump-is-ineligible-for-the-presidency-under-section-3-of-the-14th-amendment/

"It seems most likely that the Presidency is not specifically included because it is so evidently an "office." In fact, no specific office is listed in Section Three; instead, the Section refers to "any office, civil or military." U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 3. True, senators, representatives, and presidential electors are listed, but none of these positions is considered an "office" in the Constitution. Instead, senators and representatives are referred to as "members" of their respective bodies.

I would add that senators, representatives, and electors are less clearly officers than the president, because they do not have individual authority to issue orders to subordinates, a point I expounded on in my Bulwark article."

"the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment only provides a guarantee of due process before a person can be deprived of "life, liberty, or property."

Disqualification under Section 3 doesn't threaten any of these. Loss of eligibility for holding various types of public offices pretty obviously doesn't threaten anyone's life or property rights. And it isn't a threat to liberty, either. No one claims that the Twenty-Second Amendment deprives people of "liberty" merely because they become ineligible for the presidency if they have already served two terms." 

the article also explains why Trump engaged in insurrection and the amendment is  self-executing
I should have stopped at "It seems most likely".
« Last Edit: December 20, 2023, 06:05:41 PM by Mn »
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #968 on: December 20, 2023, 06:05:16 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 20, 2023, 03:09:11 PM
this is less a threat to democracy than term limits
I'm not sure about that.

How about if states kick Biden off the ballot for not enforcing our borders ?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2023, 06:30:17 PM by Mn »
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spark mandrill

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #969 on: December 20, 2023, 08:33:21 PM »
"you can't hold Trump accountable for being an open traitor to the US because what if the GOP makes up some bullshit out of thin air and blatantly politically retaliates" isn't the take you think it is, especially given that this lawsuit was literally filed by Republicans
« Last Edit: December 20, 2023, 09:52:12 PM by spark mandrill »
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alum74

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #970 on: December 20, 2023, 09:35:15 PM »
Quote from: Mn on December 20, 2023, 06:05:16 PM
I'm not sure about that.

How about if states kick Biden off the ballot for not enforcing our borders ?

Never underestimate the ability of a Republican to miss the point entirely and then do false equivalency.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #971 on: December 27, 2023, 06:51:44 PM »


https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1739422193648304520?s=20

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

1 Corinthians 13:4-5
« Last Edit: December 27, 2023, 06:59:08 PM by illiniray »
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alum74

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #972 on: December 27, 2023, 07:58:17 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 27, 2023, 06:51:44 PM


https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1739422193648304520?s=20

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

1 Corinthians 13:4-5

"Happy Birthday Jesus!" - DJT

Haha, jk...
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Illinifan5775

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #973 on: December 28, 2023, 08:43:55 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 27, 2023, 06:51:44 PM


https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1739422193648304520?s=20

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

1 Corinthians 13:4-5
That's what you get from the truly sick Trump.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?
« Reply #974 on: January 09, 2024, 09:39:13 AM »
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