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Liberal Lemonade

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ThePAMan

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Re: Liberal Lemonade
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2022, 02:16:20 PM »
The other day some dude told me that bikes are bad for the environment because of all the extra food you'd need to eat to power the bikes.

This dude was like 75 pounds overweight and I just said "I don't think you need to worry, your tank is full for 2 lifetimes. Is your worry that it would not be possible to eat more than you already do without gagging?"

Did you punch him?
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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alum74

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Re: Liberal Lemonade
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2022, 02:18:15 PM »
Yeah I remember MiniDitka and I going around and around about the embedded cost of “green” stuff like windmills and electric vehicles etc

Some people just can’t wrap their heads around it.

All energy resources and technologies have so-called embedded costs, including oil, coal and nuclear.
https://unece.org/sites/default/files/2021-10/LCA-2.pdf

I think the point MiniDitka made was that technological progress will continue and we will see a new generation of batteries that are cheaper, cleaner and safer.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/07/business/energy-environment/next-generation-auto-battery.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2021/02/11/what-batteries-will-power-the-future/?sh=f45dad641c0e

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alum74

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Re: Liberal Lemonade
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2022, 02:29:09 PM »
These electric vehicles might actually be more harmful to our environment than gas/oil and have more long term repercussions to our planet too.

Are electric cars ‘green’? The answer is yes, but it’s complicated
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/lifetime-emissions-of-evs-are-lower-than-gasoline-cars-experts-say.html

I would have preferred that the author of the article use the word “greener” instead of “green.”   

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ridingthegrange

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Re: Liberal Lemonade
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2022, 05:20:55 PM »
Regardless of whatever the environmental ramifications are, the fact is that fossil fuels are finite.  They are a resource that should be conserved.  The sooner we can find alternatives, the better off we'll be.  Fusion anyone?

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alum74

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Re: Liberal Lemonade
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2022, 05:51:27 PM »
Regardless of whatever the environmental ramifications are, the fact is that fossil fuels are finite.  They are a resource that should be conserved.  The sooner we can find alternatives, the better off we'll be.  Fusion anyone?

Sleepy Joe seems to like the idea…

White House Sets Sights on Commercial Fusion Energy
https://www.aip.org/fyi/2022/white-house-sets-sights-commercial-fusion-energy

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Custard

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Re: Liberal Lemonade
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2022, 07:34:14 PM »
I’m all for finding legit alternatives. What I’m not for is pretending that alternatives with huge embedded costs are a miracle cure like so many seem to think they are. Alum’s own material shows there’s a very marginal benefit to the EVs that everyone claims are going to save the environment. 

And we don’t necessarily need to put in heavily subsidized solar or wind farms simply to advance the technology. It really bugs me as well to see some of the best farmland in the corn belt being taken out of production for these installations as well. Mind boggling.

Modern nuclear definitely makes sense but hard to envision the amount of money being invested into it that it would take to revive it from the dead. Unless of course they magically nail down fusion.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Liberal Lemonade
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2022, 09:12:50 AM »
One thing being overlooked is the countries that rely on extracting fossil fuels for their economies seem to be a bunch of authoritarian dicks. Less reliance on fossil fuels means we don't have to worry about kowtowing to the Soviets, Saudi fucks, Venezuelans, etc. (Then we need to kowtow to the battery minerals assholes, I guess.) The sooner that happens the better.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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alum74

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Re: Liberal Lemonade
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2022, 09:51:08 AM »
Quibbling about which technology is cleaner or greener is a huge waste of time because the price of energy in this country and elsewhere does not reflect its real cost to society and the environment. 
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-017-07510-3

The one big thing that would help nuclear, renewables, energy efficiency, hydrogen, energy storage, carbon sequestration and other greener technologies would be to put an economy-wide carbon pricing scheme (e.g., carbon tax or cap and trade program) into place.  This would assign an accurate price to energy production and motivate businesses, institutions, financial sector and governments to start addressing the externalities of climate change in a meaningful, prodcutive way.   Otherwise, we’ll just continue to limp along with modest incremental improvements in technology here and there.   

In the short term, look no further than the great state of Illinois for an example of how environmentalists, utilities, nuclear power generators, government officials, labor unions and community groups can work together to enact comprehensive energy legislation that addresses climate change.  The new law will keep the existing nukes open, while spurring further development of renewables and providing resources to coal-impacted communities to transition to more resilient economies.   
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/20/illinois-nuclear-power-subsidy-of-694-million-imperfect-compromise.html