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Poll

Will Guenther Jr. have the balls to fire his ass?

Fuck no
4 (44.4%)
Hell no
2 (22.2%)
Too fucking cheap to do so
1 (11.1%)
Yes
1 (11.1%)
ChicagoFan was right
1 (11.1%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: November 27, 2021, 08:07:28 PM

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When Underaciever loses to Weber

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Judge Judy

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Re: When Underaciever loses to Weber
« Reply #120 on: November 27, 2021, 05:11:02 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on November 27, 2021, 05:06:27 PM
Wait, this board actually has multiple regulars that want to fire Underwood right now?

And I thought the scout board was full of basketball morons, Jesus Christ.

ThePAMan sure talks like it on here and of course Truth/Dominic.
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illinicalvin

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Re: When Underaciever loses to Weber
« Reply #121 on: November 27, 2021, 05:40:57 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on November 27, 2021, 05:06:27 PM
Wait, this board actually has multiple regulars that want to fire Underwood right now?

And I thought the scout board was full of basketball morons, Jesus Christ.
I don't, really, but I think the extension this summer was dumb and missing the tournament this year is terminable.
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spark mandrill

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Re: When Underaciever loses to Weber
« Reply #122 on: November 27, 2021, 05:57:09 PM »
Quote from: illinicalvin on November 27, 2021, 05:40:57 PM
I don't, really, but I think the extension this summer was dumb and missing the tournament this year is terminable.

Nothin like hiring a dude who rebuilds your mediocre program and then firing him soon after.

I think a lot of our fans have standards that are too low but if our standards are so high that we’re talking about firing coaches directly after they completely rebuilt our program into a nationally relevant conference title contender we’re probably never going to have any sustained success.

Underwood has been an unqualified success here so far.
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fucking

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Re: When Underaciever loses to Weber
« Reply #123 on: November 27, 2021, 06:14:04 PM »
Agreed.
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Reacher

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Re: When Underaciever loses to Weber
« Reply #124 on: November 27, 2021, 07:36:23 PM »
Quote from: illinicalvin on November 27, 2021, 05:40:57 PM
I don't, really, but I think the extension this summer was dumb and missing the tournament this year is terminable.

Agreed on the extension. I like to see someone “do it twice” before getting extended. And in my opinion, doing it twice means doing it without Ayo, at a minimum.
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Custard

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Re: When Underaciever loses to Weber
« Reply #125 on: November 27, 2021, 08:04:45 PM »
Not really sure what the problem with the extension is. The “Bill Self cautionary tale about getting a good coach and PAYING HIM” has been the most enduring Illini basketball fan trope of the century.

He almost entirely tore down a mediocre program and rebuilt it and owns the best conference record over the last two seasons. And we paid him.

It gives current recruits reassurance that he’ll be here until they are done playing and shows we are serious about paying good coaches by moving him into the top 10 highest paid coaches in the country.

They also increased his buyout so that the school will collect more money if he moved on. Certain performance metrics have to be met to keep him on until the end of the contract.

Doesn’t seem any more risky than just sitting pat and having to likely pay even more for a guy in a few years if this thing crashes and burns. And barring some egregious shit, he’s going to be here that long regardless.
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Lkdog

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Re: When Underaciever loses to Weber
« Reply #126 on: November 27, 2021, 09:46:40 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on November 27, 2021, 05:06:27 PM
Wait, this board actually has multiple regulars that want to fire Underwood right now?

And I thought the scout board was full of basketball morons, Jesus Christ.

I would say most people do not have a real strong opinion either way.
He has had a couple good conference years. The tourney faceplant was on him.
The start to this year is not great.

I think he is a limited tactical and game coach, but a decent motivator over the course of the season and I think guys like playing for him. He also seems like he is not an asshole.
Overall about average. I give him a B- in his time here.

If he can get this program into a S16 a couple times in next 5 years, he will rise above garden variety.
I have modest expectations.
If we miss tourney this year and next couple years, then the firing talk will heat up. 


« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 10:02:07 PM by Lkdog »
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ThePAMan

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Re: When Underaciever loses to Weber
« Reply #127 on: November 28, 2021, 08:23:13 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on November 27, 2021, 05:06:27 PM
Wait, this board actually has multiple regulars that want to fire Underwood right now?

And I thought the scout board was full of basketball morons, Jesus Christ.

Hahaha. I'm afraid that Loyola game is going to define his legacy here.
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ThePAMan

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Re: When Underaciever loses to Weber
« Reply #128 on: November 28, 2021, 08:36:11 AM »
What I get from this is because Weber and Groce sucked, we should be thankful Underachiever has (maybe) gotten Illinois basketball back to where it should be...an annual top 25 tournament team.

Ed Orgeron is out of a job, but Illinois loses to Loyola, as a 1 seed, and Underachiever gets an extension while losing his bag men. All makes perfect sense.
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ThePAMan

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Re: When Underaciever loses to Weber
« Reply #129 on: November 28, 2021, 08:41:42 AM »
Unfortunately, the ceiling with Underachiever looks to be nowhere as close to the ceiling under Bill Self. Yeah, I know he is a premier coach (who has botched some infamous games). But isn't that what Illinois should aspire to? Does anyone really think Underachiever is going to compete for a national championship?

And, sorry, the backups on the top teams are mopping the floor with Texas Rio Grande.
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Custard

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Re: When Underaciever loses to Weber
« Reply #130 on: November 28, 2021, 08:56:58 AM »
Tons of people including some well respected talking heads predicted Illinois to win the tourney last year.

They got beat by the #17 AP (#10 KenPom) team that had played in a final four recently. It’s just the name of the school and the seed that make it seem like a horrible loss.

It really sucked though because we know deep down as Illini fans we don’t get those opportunities very often.
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ThePAMan

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Re: When Underaciever loses to Weber
« Reply #131 on: November 28, 2021, 09:18:11 AM »
Quote from: Custard on November 28, 2021, 08:56:58 AM
Tons of people including some well respected talking heads predicted Illinois to win the tourney last year.

They got beat by the #17 AP (#10 KenPom) team that had played in a final four recently. It’s just the name of the school and the seed that make it seem like a horrible loss.

It really sucked though because we know deep down as Illini fans we don’t get those opportunities very often.

It was a horrible loss because a) the team was completely and utterly unprepared for the game and b) Loyola went on to get its ass royally kicked in the very next game. Not sure KenPom predicted that Loyola would get crushed the next game.
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illinicalvin

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Re: When Underaciever loses to Weber
« Reply #132 on: November 28, 2021, 01:19:54 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on November 27, 2021, 05:57:09 PM
a dude who rebuilds your mediocre program...Underwood has been an unqualified success here so far.
His unqualified success was signing a Mt. Rushmore-level Illini great and having him come back for a 3rd year. This is a Weber '04 fallacy at work. It doesn't mean he's not the answer, either, of course, but it's not a lifetime contract event. I don't see anyone clamoring to hire BU and it's not a per se detriment for a wildly successful coach to leave, anyway.

I think where I disagree with a lot of people is the degree of difficulty in building a high major program on the talent side with Illinois' resources. There's no mysterious magic to what BU did: he hired an A+ recruiting staff. It's not the only way to win, but our greatest eras have come from grand slam recruiting wins. In 2021, particularly with transfers, that can flip a program in 1-2 years on the talent side. What I'm interested in is whether it's sustainable and the coach can win even when he doesn't have an All-American. BU could not his 1st 2 years and it's a massive TBD for this year and whether we'll have NBA talent signing up again.

As I've said before, there isn't an athlete in the country who earnestly cares how many years are left on a coach's contract. That's noise put out by a trade group of multi-millionaires, and it's hilarious/sad that university admins still fall for it.
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illinicalvin

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Re: When Underaciever loses to Weber
« Reply #133 on: November 28, 2021, 01:24:26 PM »
Quote from: Custard on November 28, 2021, 08:56:58 AM
They got beat by the #17 AP (#10 KenPom) team that had played in a final four recently. It’s just the name of the school and the seed that make it seem like a horrible loss.
That and the game wasn't even competitive.
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Lkdog

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Re: When Underaciever loses to Weber
« Reply #134 on: November 28, 2021, 06:24:38 PM »
Quote from: Custard on November 28, 2021, 08:56:58 AM
Tons of people including some well respected talking heads predicted Illinois to win the tourney last year.

They got beat by the #17 AP (#10 KenPom) team that had played in a final four recently. It’s just the name of the school and the seed that make it seem like a horrible loss.

It really sucked though because we know deep down as Illini fans we don’t get those opportunities very often.

You are turning into that Harv guy.
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