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Recruiting

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spark mandrill

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Re: Recruiting
« Reply #1650 on: May 19, 2023, 03:36:51 PM »
It’s NCAA titles now?

350 teams are failures, 349 play exclusively meaningless games every year?

Imagine if I’d told you five years ago “we’re going to be a tournament team the next four years including a one seed and a conference title and if you ask this board we’ve been shitty with no redeeming qualities and none of the success matters because we didn’t make the S16”.  Would’ve been really difficult to believe you could’ve moved the goalposts so far, so fast.

I had literally never heard a single Illini fan claim that no games matter except the second weekend of the tournament on until they won the league and lost in the first weekend.  Probably a coincidence.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Recruiting
« Reply #1651 on: May 19, 2023, 03:45:01 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 19, 2023, 03:36:51 PM
I had literally never heard a single Illini fan claim that no games matter except the second weekend of the tournament on until they won the league and lost in the first weekend.  Probably a coincidence.

Nice Tempo-ish strawman you have constructed.

Again, the regular season, and possibly conference tournament, games are play-in games. If you do not make it to the The Tourney, it sucks and is a failed season. Plenty of people have bitched about not making it.

If you are Illinois and get in, the goal is to win it. Losing Sat/Sun has been a problem under the current regime. Plenty of people have bitched about this too.

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spark mandrill

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Re: Recruiting
« Reply #1652 on: May 19, 2023, 03:46:27 PM »
So, 118 seasons, 118 failures for Illinois basketball?

Why do you even still follow it then?  If I thought that black-and-white I would do literally anything else.

It sounds no fun at all to follow a sport when you can't celebrate any success other than being the 1 of 351 teams to win the whole thing.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Recruiting
« Reply #1653 on: May 19, 2023, 03:49:43 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 19, 2023, 03:46:27 PM
So, 118 seasons, 118 failures for Illinois basketball?

Why do you even still follow it then?  If I thought that black-and-white I would do literally anything else.

It sounds no fun at all to follow a sport when you can't celebrate any success other than being the 1 of 351 teams to win the whole thing.

I thought Lou Boudreau won a championship, so not 118 years.

I am rooting for them to fucking win one. I have a can of Dirt Cheep beer in the beer fridge I bought in St. Louis the weekend of the Final Four that I intend to drink when they win it all.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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spark mandrill

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Re: Recruiting
« Reply #1654 on: May 19, 2023, 03:51:59 PM »
Sounds absolutely fucking miserable.

You mock somebody for being happy we won the Big Ten in 2022 but the retroactive 1915 Premo-Poretta Championship (awarded in 1995) is pulling a lot of weight for you?

Do you mock people when they pretend the '89 or '05 team weren't failures?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2023, 03:55:00 PM by spark mandrill »
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ThePAMan

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Re: Recruiting
« Reply #1655 on: May 19, 2023, 03:54:40 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 19, 2023, 03:51:59 PM
Sounds absolutely fucking miserable.

You mock somebody for being happy we won the Big Ten in 2022 but the retroactive 1915 Premo-Poretta Championship (awarded in 1995) is pulling a lot of weight for you?

You actually sound miserable, to be honest, Spark. Always so angry these days. Even with Lkdog and Jasn88Cub.

I will defer to Nichi, but I do not believe Lou Boudreau was there in 1915.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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ThePAMan

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Re: Recruiting
« Reply #1656 on: May 19, 2023, 03:56:39 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 19, 2023, 03:51:59 PM
Do you mock people when they pretend the '89 or '05 team weren't failures?

I don't recall any specific instances. But I have not seen anyone say either team met their ultimate expectations. A simple block out would have been nice in '89.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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spark mandrill

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Re: Recruiting
« Reply #1657 on: May 19, 2023, 03:57:22 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on May 19, 2023, 03:54:40 PM
You actually sound miserable, to be honest, Spark. Always so angry these days. Even with Lkdog and Jasn88Cub.

I will defer to Nichi, but I do not believe Lou Boudreau was there in 1915.

Well that's the only national title Illinois claims.  1915.  Awarded by Helms and the other org retroactively.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Recruiting
« Reply #1658 on: May 19, 2023, 03:58:08 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on May 19, 2023, 03:56:39 PM
I don't recall any specific instances. But I have not seen anyone say either team met their ultimate expectations. A simple block out would have been nice in '89.

Failures!

If you liked those teams you're stupid, they failed!

It's just the most baldly stupid argument I've ever seen made about college basketball.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Recruiting
« Reply #1659 on: May 19, 2023, 04:02:43 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 19, 2023, 03:58:08 PM
Failures!

If you liked those teams you're stupid, they failed!

It's just the most baldly stupid argument I've ever seen made about college basketball.

I can like those teams even while acknowledging they failed in their ultimate objective.

When did you become Tempo with these arguments?
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"
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spark mandrill

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Re: Recruiting
« Reply #1660 on: May 19, 2023, 04:03:42 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on May 19, 2023, 04:02:43 PM
I can like those teams even while acknowledging they failed in their ultimate objective.

When did you become Tempo with these arguments?

Why would you like a failure?  That's loser stuff.

This isn't Tempo stuff man - unless by that you mean it's a better argument than yours - this is the argument YOU are making to ME.  You're mocking me for being happy we won our conference.  It's absurd.

I liked all of those teams, because winning a bunch of games and winning conference titles and hanging banners and having All American players is fun whether you eventually lose before you "meet your ultimate goal" or not.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2023, 04:05:26 PM by spark mandrill »
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ThePAMan

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Re: Recruiting
« Reply #1661 on: May 19, 2023, 04:11:06 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 19, 2023, 04:03:42 PM
Why would you like a failure?  That's loser stuff.

This isn't Tempo stuff man - this is the argument YOU are making to ME.  You're mocking me for being happy we won our conference.  It's absurd.

I liked all of those teams, because winning a bunch of games and winning conference titles and hanging banners and having All American players is fun whether you eventually lose before you "meet your ultimate goal" or not.

1. No, it is not the argument I am making to you. That is the argument you are making, ala Tempo.

2. That you are satisfied with all those things is on you. You must be very happy. I think it is shortsighted. So you are correct there.

3. I think you understate how many people are not just satisfied with B1G titles, though. I have nothing scientific to back that up, but most Illini fans out there seem perpetually dissatisfied for one reason or another.  A lot like White Sox fans.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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spark mandrill

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Re: Recruiting
« Reply #1662 on: May 19, 2023, 04:18:01 PM »
Yes, a lot of Illini fans seem to enjoy being miserable, and when things start going well they do whatever they can to poke holes in it - including resorting to obvious bad faith arguments to justify a distaste for the coach who led us to that success.  He's the first coach we've had in two decades that's proven he can build a winner here and this board is less likely to defend him than they are Bruce Weber.

And no, again, it's exactly what you're saying to me.  You are mocking me all over multiple threads for thinking winning a Big Ten title is a successful year.  You said if the Illini are in the tourney, the goal is to win it; and if they don't, they are a failure.  Those are things you have said to me directly today.  But you only apply that to the Underwood team.  I have never seen you jump out on someone saying the 2005 team was successful to mock them for celebrating a failure.  Which is good, because that'd be stupid as fuck.

Would I be more happy with the 20-21 or 21-22 teams if they had won the title?  Of course.  There are levels of success.  The 20-21 and 21-22 teams certainly aren't our best teams ever. Does that mean I look back on a Big Ten champ or a 1-seed or just a great team who didn't win the NCAA title and just think "failure", or think it makes sense to mock someone for thinking maybe if you hang a banner in your gym you had a pretty successful season?  That no games count until the second weekend of the tournament, everything else is play-in?  No, because that's silly absolutist, black-and-white thinking.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Recruiting
« Reply #1663 on: May 19, 2023, 04:28:55 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 19, 2023, 04:18:01 PM
[1] And no, again, it's exactly what you're saying to me.  You are mocking me all over multiple threads for thinking winning a Big Ten title is a successful year.  You said if the Illini are in the tourney, the goal is to win it; and if they don't, they are a failure.  Those are things you have said to me directly today.  [2] But you only apply that to the Underwood team.

[1] This is true. What was untrue, and to which I was referring, was the first part of that post about why cheer for failures, etc.  I had thought about adding "[1]" "[2]" etc. to your post so it could be understood what I was referencing in each paragraph. Sorry that was not clear. 

[2] Losing as a 1-seed was the biggest issue in quite some time. But I do not know the last time there was a discussion of 89 [chump edit] or 05. Those teams definitely failed in their objectives though. I do not see how you can say otherwise.

[3] There is absolutely nothing wrong with failing, as long as you learn something from it and get back up and try again.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2023, 04:33:53 PM by ThePAMan »
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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spark mandrill

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Re: Recruiting
« Reply #1664 on: May 19, 2023, 04:36:47 PM »
Sorry, was "why cheer for failures?" not a fair inference from you going to multiple threads including on the football board to mock the notion that a Big Ten title might be something to celebrate?
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