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WTF did Trump do to the stock market?

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #75 on: March 23, 2020, 04:17:27 AM »
https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/488906-coronavirus-reveals-financial-irresponsibility-of-americans

I don't think the fact that Americans own more than 1 HD TV helps prove her point. You can get a 40 inch HD tv for $300.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #76 on: March 23, 2020, 04:22:38 AM »
I’d like to hear your thoughts on his tweets

I missed the part during the H1N1 issues where China closed down for business and hospitals in certain areas were swamped.  To be completely honest, I don't even remember the H1N1 being an issue.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #77 on: March 23, 2020, 08:01:18 AM »
Meanwhile, another tough day in the market forecast, businesses closing, people filing for unemployment and not 1 senator crosses the aisle.
Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---47
Alexander (R-TN)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Blackburn (R-TN)
Blunt (R-MO)
Boozman (R-AR)
Braun (R-IN)
Burr (R-NC)
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ridingthegrange

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #78 on: March 23, 2020, 08:52:11 AM »
This is really no news and wouldn't be reported if not for 24/7 coverage.  Both sides are continuing to negotiate and don't forget that the House needs to be on board as well.  It'll get done in next day or so.  Never saw Moscow Mitch get so excited about trying to spend our money.  He wants it done before the light shines on which corporations have their hand in the cookie jar.  My my, where's the Freedom Caucus?

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alum74

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #79 on: March 23, 2020, 10:33:38 AM »
Anyone reading Bill Mitchell's tweets?

Put this huckster in charge of the CDC.   He can run the agency from his new home in Miami. 

Trump Superfan Bill Mitchell Raised Money to Move to D.C. He Moved to Miami Instead
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-superfan-bill-mitchell-raised-money-to-move-to-dc-then-he-moved-to-miami-his-fans-are-pissed

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alum74

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #80 on: March 23, 2020, 11:41:01 AM »
Meanwhile, another tough day in the market forecast, businesses closing, people filing for unemployment and not 1 senator crosses the aisle.
Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---47
Alexander (R-TN)
..............
..............
Scott (R-FL)

The votes weren't there and McConnell knew it.  The two sides are still split on several issues.  Negotiations will continue and a deal will get done. 

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Custard

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #81 on: March 23, 2020, 11:56:04 AM »
https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/488906-coronavirus-reveals-financial-irresponsibility-of-americans

I don't think the fact that Americans own more than 1 HD TV helps prove her point. You can get a 40 inch HD tv for $300.

Jeff Frank also skews the numbers.
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Custard

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #82 on: March 23, 2020, 12:02:19 PM »
I’d like to hear your thoughts on his tweets

I missed the part during the H1N1 issues where China closed down for business and hospitals in certain areas were swamped.  To be completely honest, I don't even remember the H1N1 being an issue.

Idk I was taking this all very seriously at first but as time goes on I’m starting to think it’s mostly a bunch of bull shit.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #83 on: March 23, 2020, 12:33:50 PM »
I’d like to hear your thoughts on his tweets


Trump on March 9: "The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power (it used to be greater!) to inflame the CoronaVirus situation, far beyond what the facts would warrant. Surgeon General, “The risk is low to the average American.”'

I have a lot of conservative friends and nearly all of them support Trump. A few of them were and still are heavily invested in that take. They are big Mitchell guys. Most are not buying it it all. They understand the need for social distancing to flatten the curve. Plus, we are in the high risk age group and some of us have health conditions. 

Trump suddenly did a 180 on March 11, but Mitchell and a few loons are sticking to their guns. They think Trump was right all along.

The stock market was approaching a major correction with the Shiller PE Ratio at 32 a moth ago. The covid-19 pandemic gives Trump something to blame. Meanwhile, he has already denied he was ever in denial mode.

Trump on March 17: "I've always known this is a real, this is a pandemic. I've felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic."

Trump on Feb 14: "We have a very small number of people in the country, right now, with it. It’s like around 12. Many of them are getting better. Some are fully recovered already. So we’re in very good shape."

Jan. 22: A reporter asks if there are worries about a pandemic. Trump responds: "No. Not at all. And we have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s — going to be just fine."

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/mar/20/how-donald-trump-responded-coronavirus-pandemic/

 

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illiniray

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #84 on: March 23, 2020, 01:03:59 PM »
I’d like to hear your thoughts on his tweets

I missed the part during the H1N1 issues where China closed down for business and hospitals in certain areas were swamped.  To be completely honest, I don't even remember the H1N1 being an issue.

Idk I was taking this all very seriously at first but as time goes on I’m starting to think it’s mostly a bunch of bull shit.

These are rough numbers, but are not too far off. Suppose there is a virulent strain of of flu. 50 million Americans catch it. 400,000 require hospitalization. There are 50,000 deaths. Mitchell claims nobody cares. He points out that it did not overstrain the healthcare system.

Now suppose 50 million Americans are infected with covid-19.  Based on past experience; 8,000,000 to 10,000,000 might require hospitalization. If that happened quickly, we would not have enough hospital beds or respirators and would have to triage. See Italy.  We could be looking at minimally 500,000 to 1,500,000 deaths, potentially more.   
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ILLove1997

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #85 on: March 23, 2020, 04:06:06 PM »
I’d like to hear your thoughts on his tweets

I missed the part during the H1N1 issues where China closed down for business and hospitals in certain areas were swamped.  To be completely honest, I don't even remember the H1N1 being an issue.

Idk I was taking this all very seriously at first but as time goes on I’m starting to think it’s mostly a bunch of bull shit.

These are rough numbers, but are not too far off. Suppose there is a virulent strain of of flu. 50 million Americans catch it. 400,000 require hospitalization. There are 50,000 deaths. Mitchell claims nobody cares. He points out that it did not overstrain the healthcare system.

Now suppose 50 million Americans are infected with covid-19.  Based on past experience; 8,000,000 to 10,000,000 might require hospitalization. If that happened quickly, we would not have enough hospital beds or respirators and would have to triage. See Italy.  We could be looking at minimally 500,000 to 1,500,000 deaths, potentially more.

well even with 1.4 million deaths, this "stimulus package" of 1.4 trillion is costing taxpayers 1 million dollars per death... fucking ridiculous
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #86 on: March 23, 2020, 05:17:13 PM »
I’d like to hear your thoughts on his tweets

I missed the part during the H1N1 issues where China closed down for business and hospitals in certain areas were swamped.  To be completely honest, I don't even remember the H1N1 being an issue.

Idk I was taking this all very seriously at first but as time goes on I’m starting to think it’s mostly a bunch of bull shit.

These are rough numbers, but are not too far off. Suppose there is a virulent strain of of flu. 50 million Americans catch it. 400,000 require hospitalization. There are 50,000 deaths. Mitchell claims nobody cares. He points out that it did not overstrain the healthcare system.

Now suppose 50 million Americans are infected with covid-19.  Based on past experience; 8,000,000 to 10,000,000 might require hospitalization. If that happened quickly, we would not have enough hospital beds or respirators and would have to triage. See Italy.  We could be looking at minimally 500,000 to 1,500,000 deaths, potentially more.

well even with 1.4 million deaths, this "stimulus package" of 1.4 trillion is costing taxpayers 1 million dollars per death... fucking ridiculous

How much is it costing per living taxpayer? May be the more accurate metric.
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Custard

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #87 on: March 23, 2020, 08:50:49 PM »
And the mortality rate is hovering around 1% and will continue to drop as more and more lightly symptomatic or asymptomatic people are tested. Germany (where a lot more tests have been administered) has a much lower mortality rate. One that will likely mirror ours once our testing continues to get ramped up. This shit has been here literally for months.

The more the media panics everyone the more every person that gets a sniffle or a cough is going to get a test for covid 19 or going to the ER and tying up precious medical resources. All for basically a slightly stronger version of the flu.

And I’m seriously gonna be pissed if this ends up being less severe than H1N1. Pretty dangerous precedent to set...now every time a virus comes around we shut the whole economy down? This is economically killing the people in the service industry who can least afford to be out of work indefinitely. The fat cats on Wall St will all be fine and will buy everything back for pennies on the dollar when the economy goes on another big bull run while our most vulnerable people won’t be able to afford to feed or house their children.

And if you look back at the alarmist bullshit Time and the like were putting out just 10-12 days ago, well, let’s just say they are not aging well at all. 
« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 08:52:28 PM by Custard »
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illinicalvin

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #88 on: March 23, 2020, 11:33:01 PM »
And the mortality rate is hovering around 1% and will continue to drop
There's still unknowns both on the numerator and the denominator, and in the forward mortality rate, a big variable is whether urban hospitals are pushed to max capacity.

Bergamo (122k) delayed doing a lock-down until March 9 and maxed ICU beds just 9 days later (March 18). At the time of the Bergamo lockdown, Italy had 9k cases / 51M population, so 0.00018 cases per capita. The US, just yesterday, hit 35k cumulative cases / 325M population, so we're roughly at the same per capita *known* infection rate, so by that metric we're about ~2 weeks behind northern Italy if there's any analogous spread here.

Italy is now at 64k confirmed w/ 6k deaths. If the US has similar linear/multiple expansion, in 2 weeks we're looking at 245,000 cases. At the ~1-1.5% death rate we have now, we'll lose 2500-3500 of those people and the cumulative effect of this over the next 3 months will be like an aggravated flu season.

But there are a few really big unknowns. One is that we aren't even close to testing everyone, which includes the recently deceased outside of hospitals. Again, going back to Bergamo, its year-over-year death rate is still higher than what can be accounted for by known covid infections. https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/21/italian-mayor-claims-the-true-death-toll-from-covid-19-likely-to-be-much-higher. One possibility is that they (and likely we) are missing a lot covid-19 in the wild that's killed people outside of the healthcare system. Pneumonia is not an uncommon cause of death as it is, and we have anecdotal evidence that this thing is more saturated in the US than we first thought.

A second variable is whether regional health resources are strained or exhausted. Northern Italy is fairly well of and they have more hospital beds than us per capita although fewer ICU units.

In any event, the 1-1.5% death rate presumes appropriate medical care. If we have to triage ventilators in any region, the death rate for elderly and at-risk patients will skyrocket. We have 1M hospital beds and 175k ventilators nationwide, but it's going to be more important that we avoid exhausting resources in individual metropolitan areas and it's more difficult to do that here than in other countries for a variety of reasons.

If we succeed in doing that, it doesn't mean covid-19 was overblown; it means we beat a real threat that was beatable. And it is a real threat b/c while Bergamo is the worst scenario in Italy currently, we have a good 15 metropolitan areas with 5-10x the people and higher population densities. And remember, this thing's like looking at the stars.

All this is compounded by that it's a weird disease that can be either entirely asymptomatic or put healthy young people into a tailspin and we have no idea what the long-term effects on lung issues are. Plus, what we see in ERs today is what was infected 1-2 weeks ago, so it's possible there's pending exponential growth in our bigger cities that we're not seeing yet.

It we see the growth curves level off and ventilator/ICU rotations stabilize, I'm fine with going back to quasi-normal, but we're not there yet and may not be for another few weeks. If we get to the end of the month and Trump tells everyone to go back to normal, we're risking a catastrophe that would amplify the economic issues that he's already complaining about. I don't think Trump has the capacity to imagine how ugly this is capable of being.

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Custard

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Re: WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
« Reply #89 on: March 24, 2020, 11:07:07 AM »
I’m not convinced such a catastrophe would happen if things were to return to quasi normal come April 1.

 A friend and I were saying it well before I saw anyone else mention it—in reality it only severely affects a limited number of people. Isolate those at greatest risk and let people get back to work with rational solutions like social distancing and limiting contact with elderly for some time. It’s already been out there and has been circulating and didn’t cause a rash of irregular deaths, and the primary reason cases are skyrocketing is that more tests are being performed.

The death numbers from Italy can’t be trusted whatsoever and are a complete anomaly to what we are seeing in the rest of the developed world. Italy also was a direct hot spot for it due to the connections with Wuhan and has an old af population.
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