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WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5595 on: July 29, 2023, 05:34:29 PM »
I hate Illinois nazis.
Poster Boy for White Male Indifference

AOTC on basically everything measurable

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Reacher

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5596 on: July 29, 2023, 08:57:22 PM »
I hate Illinois nazis.

Just Illinois Nazis?
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5597 on: July 30, 2023, 10:20:48 AM »
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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Reacher

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5598 on: July 30, 2023, 10:28:41 AM »
SMDH...



Last time I saw that movie was like 43 years ago.
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5599 on: July 30, 2023, 10:33:53 AM »
Last time I saw that movie was like 43 years ago.

I guess it is not a classic like Point Blanks, or whatever that Keanu Reeves vehicle was called.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5600 on: July 30, 2023, 07:21:54 PM »
https://jabberwocking.com/raw-data-public-belief-in-the-covid-19-lab-leak-theory/

Raw data: Public belief in the COVID-19 lab leak theory

There's no longer any partisan difference at all. Across all parties, the lab leak theory is favored 2:1 over a natural origin for the COVID-19 virus.
***
Why the enormous—and growing—distance between the public and the experts? My guess is that it's for two reasons. First, the lab leak zealots are simply louder and more persistent than the experts. Second, the lab leak theory makes all the front-pages whenever there's some fresh news about it. For example, when the Department of Energy decided a lab leak was likely, it got big play everywhere.¹ Ditto for the release of the names of the Wuhan researchers working on coronaviruses.² Conversely, science moves more gently. Evidence mounts over time and there are few decisive breakthroughs that make the news. And even when there are, they're barely comprehensible to the ordinary person.
***
The lab leak theory is exciting and easy to understand—and implicates China, which everyone loves. Meanwhile, the natural origins story is boring and largely rests on a PhD-level knowledge of virology. What's more, experts are all careful to acknowledge that they can't prove the lab leak theory is wrong, which keeps the door permanently open for the crackpots.

By now, the lab leak theory is literally a one-in-a-million shot. The evidence is overwhelmingly against it. But no one cares.

Chump edit: Thought I had hit copy and paste twice....
« Last Edit: July 31, 2023, 11:43:45 AM by ThePAMan »
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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Reacher

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5601 on: July 30, 2023, 07:58:13 PM »
Shocking…
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5602 on: July 30, 2023, 11:01:46 PM »

The lab leak theory is exciting and easy to understand—and implicates China, which everyone loves. Meanwhile, the natural origins story is boring and largely rests on a PhD-level knowledge of virology. What's more, experts are all careful to acknowledge that they can't prove the lab leak theory is wrong, which keeps the door permanently open for the crackpots.

By now, the lab leak theory is literally a one-in-a-million shot. The evidence is overwhelmingly against it. But no one cares.

As Neil DeGrasse Tyson says - science has gotten far enough that to most people, it's indistinguishable from magic

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Reacher

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5603 on: July 31, 2023, 11:32:03 AM »
As Neil DeGrasse Tyson says - science has gotten far enough that to most people, it's indistinguishable from magic

Great quote.
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

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Reacher

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5604 on: July 31, 2023, 11:37:26 AM »
As Neil DeGrasse Tyson says - science has gotten far enough that to most people, it's indistinguishable from magic

But we do have guys here who do their own research, so that shouldn’t be discounted.
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

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alum74

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5605 on: July 31, 2023, 07:06:59 PM »
https://jabberwocking.com/raw-data-public-belief-in-the-covid-19-lab-leak-theory/

Raw data: Public belief in the COVID-19 lab leak theory

There's no longer any partisan difference at all. Across all parties, the lab leak theory is favored 2:1 over a natural origin for the COVID-19 virus.
***
Why the enormous—and growing—distance between the public and the experts? My guess is that it's for two reasons. First, the lab leak zealots are simply louder and more persistent than the experts. Second, the lab leak theory makes all the front-pages whenever there's some fresh news about it. For example, when the Department of Energy decided a lab leak was likely, it got big play everywhere.¹ Ditto for the release of the names of the Wuhan researchers working on coronaviruses.² Conversely, science moves more gently. Evidence mounts over time and there are few decisive breakthroughs that make the news. And even when there are, they're barely comprehensible to the ordinary person.
***
The lab leak theory is exciting and easy to understand—and implicates China, which everyone loves. Meanwhile, the natural origins story is boring and largely rests on a PhD-level knowledge of virology. What's more, experts are all careful to acknowledge that they can't prove the lab leak theory is wrong, which keeps the door permanently open for the crackpots.

By now, the lab leak theory is literally a one-in-a-million shot. The evidence is overwhelmingly against it. But no one cares.

Chump edit: Thought I had hit copy and paste twice....

The honest answer is “I don’t know”, with the caveat that the Chinese government must be transparent and commit to fully cooperating with the international community in determining the origin of COVID-19.   

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5606 on: August 01, 2023, 07:33:33 AM »
https://jabberwocking.com/heres-why-a-lab-leak-of-covid-seemed-unlikely-even-in-2020/

However, in late February 2020 they discovered a bat virus that had an insertion in the genome at exactly the point of the furin cleavage site in SARS-CoV-2. This strongly suggested that the furin cleavage site could indeed be created naturally by evolution, which in turn meant it was no longer necessary to think the virus could only have been created artificially.

But the PO paper didn't say exactly that. It said an artificial origin wasn't plausible. But why say that unless there was explicit evidence that the lab leak theory wasn't just unnecessary, but positively unlikely?

Well, there was. I didn't include this in my timeline of the internal Slack messages exchanged by the authors while they were writing PO, but one of the messages outlines exactly the evidence against a lab leak. It's from Eddie Holmes, and was written after publication of PO when Kristian Andersen was having second thoughts:

To me there is too long a series of implausible events to suggest inadvertent escape via lab passage.

(i) The Shi group sequence and publish their bat viruses all the time, but none of these are the obvious progenitor of SARS-CoV-2. It seems improbable to me that the one that escaped was not one that they had sequenced already. And why do lab passage on a virus that you have not sequenced?

(ii) If there had been a lab escape then we would expect an initial outbreak at the [Wuhan lab]. Where's the evidence of the outbreak? How could this be hidden? That group were also well enough to sequence an early genome of SARS-CoV-2 and RaTG13.

(iii) What are the odds that the virus then first appears in the very place — a wildlife market — where we exactly expect a natural species jump to occur? Why not in a far more crowded place in Wuhan of which there are many.

(iv) Why would the Shi group then publish RaTG13 that would only help point the finger at them? Makes no sense.

That was in April 2020. By now, of course, there's far more evidence both in favor of a natural origin of the virus and against a lab leak. But even at the very start, the evidence against a lab leak was pretty strong.

Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5607 on: August 01, 2023, 07:35:52 AM »
Is a possible retort that we now know the Chinese military was doing off the books research there that was not being shared?

That does not refute the remainder of it though.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5608 on: August 01, 2023, 07:42:36 AM »
Is a possible retort that we now know the Chinese military was doing off the books research there that was not being shared?

That does not refute the remainder of it though.
I'm busy all week, but I did see where Drum had a nice shout out to Michael Worobey.

Why are we hearing of this RmYNO2, first published in May, 2020 over 3 years later ? 🤷‍♂️

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5609 on: August 01, 2023, 10:03:30 AM »
I'm busy all week, but I did see where Drum had a nice shout out to Michael Worobey.

Why are we hearing of this RmYNO2, first published in May, 2020 over 3 years later ? 🤷‍♂️

Good question, but does it actually change the results?
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"