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WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5160 on: March 02, 2023, 12:19:29 PM »
I don't recall seeing this two years ago. The author's interpretation ation of gain of function is straightforward and fairly easy to understand.

It is giving an organism a new property or enhancing an existing one. This is done a couple ways. One broad, general way appears to be the same as artificial selection -- natural selection aided by humans. The other is via genetic manipulation -- specifically recombinant DNA.

This is not limited to viruses. Domesticated crops and animals were developed through artificial selection;  GMO foods via genetic manipulation.

The author said GoF research on viruses usually does not mean making them more virulent or infectious.

The author also said Fauci was wrong, but did not lie. I think that is an important point. These days, when people disagree, they tend call one another liars.

https://www.virology.ws/2021/09/09/gain-of-function-explained/
I'm not falling for what the author, who has received funding from NIH and NIAID and done work with 1 of the authors of the Proximal Origin of Sars-CoV-2 paper, is saying.

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5161 on: March 02, 2023, 12:36:47 PM »
Scientists who receive funding, actually do gain of function research, make sense, and can explain things clearly in lay terms, must be up to some nefarious conspiracy?

I think the first step is to understand what people are saying. "Follow the money" is another thing that has poisoned dialog.
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5162 on: March 02, 2023, 12:50:26 PM »
Mn, who were these people working for? (Or who are they working for?)

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715

The Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan was the early epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5163 on: March 02, 2023, 12:52:01 PM »
Same with these guys...

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8337

The molecular epidemiology of multiple zoonotic origins of SARS-CoV-2
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5164 on: March 02, 2023, 01:04:47 PM »
Here is another article from late 2021 on the same topic. The author, who might have gotten funded, notes that, in the broad sense, artificial selection can be called gain of function.

However, the controversy was about what it means in the context of researching pathogens via recombinant dna. Obviously, nobody intended to ban all forms of gain of function, just potentially dangerous research.

Did NIH fund banned GoF, and could this have created the virus that caused Covid?


https://www.asbmb.org/asbmb-today/policy/112121/gain-of-function-research-all-in-the-eye-of-the-be
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5165 on: March 02, 2023, 01:06:58 PM »
Generally interesting topic, but the details make my eyes glaze over.
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5166 on: March 02, 2023, 01:19:19 PM »
Mn, who were these people working for? (Or who are they working for?)

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715

The Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan was the early epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic
Same with these guys...

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8337

The molecular epidemiology of multiple zoonotic origins of SARS-CoV-2

Lol.

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5167 on: March 02, 2023, 02:08:10 PM »
Here is another article from late 2021 on the same topic. The author, who might have gotten funded, notes that, in the broad sense, artificial selection can be called gain of function.

However, the controversy was about what it means in the context of researching pathogens via recombinant dna. Obviously, nobody intended to ban all forms of gain of function, just potentially dangerous research.

Did NIH fund banned GoF, and could this have created the virus that caused Covid?


https://www.asbmb.org/asbmb-today/policy/112121/gain-of-function-research-all-in-the-eye-of-the-be

I will say that this article is fairly well written and balanced.
The consensus appears to be that no one can define what GoF is.
Daszak was required to report results of his work that may affect the grant funding during the grant period. He didn't.
"According to the grant's stipulations, the researchers at that point should have ceased the experiments."
They didn't bother to report it for what ? 2 years ?

"And some pointed to the work of Ralph Baric, a virologist at the University of North Carolina, who pioneered the experimental techniques used in Wuhan."
And after we could no longer do the work in this country, the U.S. biotechnology went to a lab in China that offers no transparency and had U.S. State Dept safety concerns and apparently ties to the Chinese military.
The same lab requested NIH to delete data files. NIH obliged.
As the author says "And some pointed to the work of Ralph Baric, a virologist at the University of North Carolina, who pioneered the experimental techniques used in Wuhan."
The U.S. biotechnology going to an unsafe and non-transparent lab doing work in a BSL2 lab in a communist country that has caused millions of deaths, untold economic damage and untold personal damages is the issue.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2023, 02:14:02 PM by Mn »

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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5168 on: March 02, 2023, 02:24:16 PM »
I will say that this article is fairly well written and balanced.
The consensus appears to be that no one can define what GoF is.
Daszak was required to report results of his work that may affect the grant funding during the grant period. He didn't.
"According to the grant's stipulations, the researchers at that point should have ceased the experiments."
They didn't bother to report it for what ? 2 years ?

"And some pointed to the work of Ralph Baric, a virologist at the University of North Carolina, who pioneered the experimental techniques used in Wuhan."
And after we could no longer do the work in this country, the U.S. biotechnology went to a lab in China that offers no transparency and had U.S. State Dept safety concerns and apparently ties to the Chinese military.
The same lab requested NIH to delete data files. NIH obliged.
As the author says "And some pointed to the work of Ralph Baric, a virologist at the University of North Carolina, who pioneered the experimental techniques used in Wuhan."
The U.S. biotechnology going to an unsafe and non-transparent lab doing work in a BSL2 lab in a communist country that has caused millions of deaths, untold economic damage and untold personal damages is the issue.

This all sounds pretty awful for a virus we should not be afraid of, that we should not close down any businesses or schools for, that mean we should socially distance or wear masks, or take a vaccine for.

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5169 on: March 02, 2023, 02:25:22 PM »
The U.S. biotechnology going to an unsafe and non-transparent lab doing work in a BSL2 lab in a communist country that has caused millions of deaths, untold economic damage and untold personal damages is the issue.

Assuming it was a lab leak....
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5170 on: March 02, 2023, 02:26:17 PM »
This all sounds pretty awful for a virus we should not be afraid of, that we should not close down any businesses or schools for, that mean we should socially distance or wear masks, or take a vaccine for.

Good to see the snow has not dampened your enthusiasm in this regard.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5171 on: March 02, 2023, 11:03:07 PM »
Good to see the snow has not dampened your enthusiasm in this regard.

COVID dies at 5 degrees fahrenheit, so I'm good. Maybe that's why MN thought it was BS

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5172 on: March 06, 2023, 06:45:23 AM »
Jeremy Farrar at Wellcome Trust, Fauci at NIAID and Francis Collins at NIH had control of the purse strings for virologists. According to one of the authors, the 5 virologists were "prompted" by them to write the Proximal Origins article.
https://www.scribd.com/document/629530931/2023-03-05-SSCP-Memo-Re-New-Evidence-proximal-Origin





« Last Edit: March 06, 2023, 06:47:47 AM by Mn »

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5173 on: March 06, 2023, 07:35:00 AM »
Mn, who were these people working for? (Or who are they working for?)

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715

The Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan was the early epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic
Same with these guys...

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8337

The molecular epidemiology of multiple zoonotic origins of SARS-CoV-2
I do see Michael Worobey and Kristian Andersen listed as authors in both. As well as Garry, Holmes and Rambaut. That would be 4 of the 5 Proximal Origin piece authors.
 

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5174 on: March 08, 2023, 09:48:55 AM »
I don't recall seeing this two years ago. The author's interpretation ation of gain of function is straightforward and fairly easy to understand.

It is giving an organism a new property or enhancing an existing one. This is done a couple ways. One broad, general way appears to be the same as artificial selection -- natural selection aided by humans. The other is via genetic manipulation -- specifically recombinant DNA.

This is not limited to viruses. Domesticated crops and animals were developed through artificial selection;  GMO foods via genetic manipulation.

The author said GoF research on viruses usually does not mean making them more virulent or infectious.

The author also said Fauci was wrong, but did not lie. I think that is an important point. These days, when people disagree, they tend call one another liars.

https://www.virology.ws/2021/09/09/gain-of-function-explained/
This article may better explain the disagreement with Racaniello's "I want readers to understand that the goals of GoF research are laudable, and only a small subset has the potential to harm humans."
And "Consequently these experiments are highly regulated and carried out under high levels of biological containment."

https://www.thefp.com/p/is-gain-of-function-research-a-risk

“The record of laboratory accidents and accidental infections in the most secure and highly scrutinized government labs shows that such accidents are inevitable,” Lipsitch wrote in one of his many papers on the topic."

"Those instances are just a sample. The American Biological Safety Association maintains a database of hundreds of case studies of laboratory-acquired infections, in case you really want to panic. To be clear, this is not a list of leaks specifically related to GOFROC, but the point is that lab accidents happen with surprising regularity."

"Moreover, Bryce Nickels told me there is a temptation for scientists to work at lower safety levels, because fewer restrictions make research easier to conduct. Some of the coronavirus research conducted in Wuhan was done at BSL-2—a level that a number of experts believe is far too low."

"Recently, the National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity met to discuss potential new oversights. Among their findings: the definition of ePPP is too narrow, greater transparency in the review process is needed, and there should be oversight of ePPP research regardless of the funding source."

Fauci asked in the days around Feb 1, 2020 if the EcoHealth grant went thru ePPP review and was told it did not appear that it did.
And there is no transparency as to who the individuals are who do the ePPP review.