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WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5760 on: November 29, 2023, 04:25:47 PM »
Uh, because invading a billion Chinese would not be that easy? Also, there is the complex economic ties? But, this is why Sleepy Joe proposed and signed some bills to bring some manufacturing home....

In 2015-2020 the left snickered and sneered at the suggestion that manufacturing could be brought back home.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5761 on: November 29, 2023, 04:36:30 PM »
Not suggesting we invade by any means. Just saying if this thing killed millions and literally nothing has been done to hold anyone accountable for it, is that doing right by the dead? Or doing anything to prevent it from happening again? Saying welp China won’t work with us 🤷🏻‍♂️ is some pretty fucking weak sauce. Soft on crime, soft on illegal immigration, soft on China.

No. It isn't. But what do you want to do?

In case you did not read Alum's linked article about the emigration from China, it seems that what we are doing has, in part, affected the Chinese economy. Youth unemployment is now very high over there. Our problem is that their problems seem to be leading to their further militarism (as a way to get their populace distracted, no doubt).
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5762 on: November 29, 2023, 04:37:27 PM »
In 2015-2020 the left snickered and sneered at the suggestion that manufacturing could be brought back home.

Yet Sleepy Joe is getting it done. How you like those apples?
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alum74

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5763 on: November 29, 2023, 05:05:10 PM »
In 2015-2020 the left snickered and sneered at the suggestion that manufacturing could be brought back home.

Wrong again.  The left said that Trump’s "erratic, ego-driven and inconsistent trade policies" wouldn’t work to reshore manufacturing.  We called for a "more coordinated and comprehensive approach that included rebalancing of U.S. trade, as well as significant public investments in infrastructure, clean energy, workforce training, R&D, and other industrial policies."

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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5764 on: November 29, 2023, 05:12:25 PM »
Yet Sleepy Joe is getting it done. How you like those apples?

Interesting that you tried to turn an acknowledged irony into some kind of flex
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5765 on: November 29, 2023, 05:13:12 PM »
I believe Obama may have said some jobs were gone and weren't coming back?
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5766 on: November 29, 2023, 05:16:14 PM »
Wrong again.  The left said that Trump’s "erratic, ego-driven and inconsistent trade policies" wouldn’t work to reshore manufacturing.  We called for a "more coordinated and comprehensive approach that included rebalancing of U.S. trade, as well as significant public investments in infrastructure, clean energy, workforce training, R&D, and other industrial policies."

Outstanding revisionist history here. And cherry picking. Most of the talk centered on the economic headwinds and expensive domestic labor, not diplomatic strategies.

But like everything I’ve learned since, most of the left’s snickering and sneering at the time wasn’t fact based so much as a visceral snarling reaction to having their feelings hurt by Trump.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5767 on: November 29, 2023, 05:19:56 PM »
Interesting that you tried to turn an acknowledged irony into some kind of flex

Hahaha.  Trump thought upping the tariff would help change things, but all it did was raise prices and revenues.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5768 on: November 29, 2023, 05:22:42 PM »
Outstanding revisionist history here. And cherry picking. Most of the talk centered on the economic headwinds and expensive domestic labor, not diplomatic strategies.

But like everything I’ve learned since, most of the left’s snickering and sneering at the time wasn’t fact based so much as a visceral snarling reaction to having their feelings hurt by Trump.

COVID did all the work here. We were not the only ones who were pissed by the COVID logjams over there and finally did something to change the dynamic. The Vietnamese, and others, saw the opportunity.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5769 on: November 29, 2023, 05:38:45 PM »
This is exactly what I mean by just letting it lie basically. Why aren’t we as a society beating their doors down to get answers? We’ve invaded and occupied countries for killing 3500 Americans.
Why do we have the NIH and NIAID funding work with a virology clinic in China that is doing work with viruses to increase pathogenicity and allowing the govt of China to not release some of that work partially funded by US taxpayers ?

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5770 on: November 29, 2023, 06:02:31 PM »
People were concerned with more than getting their feelings hurt.

https://thediplomat.com/2021/06/how-trump-fueled-anti-asian-violence-in-america/
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5771 on: November 29, 2023, 06:03:21 PM »
Why do we have the NIH and NIAID funding work with a virology clinic in China that is doing work with viruses to increase pathogenicity and allowing the govt of China to not release some of that work partially funded by US taxpayers ?

We should be doing that here and not over there.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5772 on: November 29, 2023, 07:57:05 PM »
We should be doing that here and not over there.
We weren't able to do it here and Wuhan was available.



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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5773 on: November 29, 2023, 08:50:37 PM »
"If SARS-CoV-2 had a laboratory origin, it would have been amplified in a laboratory through a process of serial passage typically needed to recover high-titer stocks from environmental samples. In this process, the deletion of the furin cleavage site is expected, offering a signature of laboratory handling. However, early isolates of SARS-CoV-2 show the furin cleavage site to be intact, arguing against introduction into humans after laboratory cell culture."
 ...

"... laboratory experiments would likely have included the adaptation of a virus in common laboratory animal models such as mice to study it with ease. Thus, a laboratory-derived virus released into the population would reasonably be expected to carry these adaptive markers in their genomes. However, early isolates of SARS-CoV-2 did not carry mutations that confer adaptation to common animal models,"
...

"Early cases in Wuhan involved two lineages, distinguishable by the viral genome sequence, suggesting that there were multiple events of spillover into humans. This situation is more likely to have resulted from zoonosis than a lab accident as lab accidents are relatively rare, and both lineages of SARS-CoV-2 were found in sequences from the Hunan market"

More:

28 March 2023
A Critical Analysis of the Evidence for the SARS-CoV-2 Origin Hypotheses
Authors: James C. Alwine, Arturo Casadevall, Lynn W. Enquist https://orcid.org/0000-0001-9968-8586, Felicia D. Goodrum https://orcid.org/0000-0002-6646-7290 fgoodrum@arizona.edu, Michael J. Imperiale
https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mbio.00583-23
In 2017 an NIAID employee heard a low level employee at Wuhan say the lab was considering reverse engineering Ebola to study.

In 2018 the State Dept said there were safety concerns at Wuhan.

In 2018 EcoHealth Alliance's Peter Daszak submitted a $14 million proposal. The Pentagon rejected the proposal that included that the work could "safeguard the US warfighter."
The Defense Advance Research Proposal Agency rejected the request saying "“The proposal is considered to potentially involve [gain-of-function] research because they propose to synthesize spike glycoproteins which bind to human cell receptors and insert them into SARSr-CoV backbones to assess whether they can cause SARS-like disease," DARPA wrote, adding, "The proposal hardly addresses or discusses ethical, legal, and social issues.”

An NIAID grant to Ecohealth required reports, including notification of increase in pathogenicity. The 10 fold increase in pathogenicity that was observed wasn't submitted according to the language in the grant.

And the editorial



The critical analysis is an editorial that includes refererences to 2 papers from authors of Proximal Origin and also says " Bat CoVs were under study at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) in the period preceding the pandemic as part of an ongoing important surveillance effort. "

WIV may have been involved in a surveillance effort, but gain of function work at WIV was also being done and isn't mentioned

The analysis discusses genome markers in hypothesis 1 but doesn't discuss if Ralph Baric's work on what he termed " no see ems" was considered.

Regarding hypothesis 2 and evidence B, Daszak did work that generated a ten fold increase in pathogenicity. "Since these nuances were not understood prior to 2020, deliberate engineering of the SARS-CoV-2 cleavage site to promote pathogenesis without this critical information is improbable."
What if the engineering wasn't deliberate engineering to promote pathogenesis, but was engineering that unexpectedly resulted in pathogenesis ? If, as the authors say, the nuances weren't known then a 10 fold increase that Daszak found probably would be unexpected.

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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5774 on: November 29, 2023, 11:42:35 PM »
In 2015-2020 the left snickered and sneered at the suggestion that manufacturing could be brought back home.

"The Left" - if they snickered, isn't any smarter than "The Mn" on his weird lab leak stuff.

The CHIPs act will be trumpeted high and wide, and it's cool if there are some good paying semiconductor jobs in PennOhitucky. But it doesn't untangle us from China. The chips currently manufactured at TSMC still go to China to be assembled, and there are other non TSMC parts that end up on those boards, the CHIPs act isn't covering capacitors, resistors, green plastic, etc...

The reasons that TSMC became the big merchant semi vendor are twofold. Back in the day, people who made chips all built their own fabs. My first job at DEC Hudson was in a facility where we designed the chips in one building and the Fab was next door. But back then, companies that fabricated parts were the only customer of the Fab, and the real margins that paid back the cost of the Fab was selling 200k computers to a bank and making endless streams of money in software and services. IBM, DEC, Wang, SUN, HP, etc...

The PC revolution flipped the script - where Intel was just making and selling chips, as was AMD and TI. These were huge companies selling big volumes to pay down the fab.

But the next revolution where you get things like iPhones and Garmin watches and the like - for a long time Apple didn't even design their own CPUs, let alone manufacture them. But the CPUs were designed by smaller companies that didn't own Fabs, who were more nimble as higher priced semiconductors started being placed into cars, phones, etc... But TI and Intel aren't merchant semiconductor vendors, they don't sell fab capacity, they sell chips.

To add to it, building a fab has gotten more expensive in the US because they aren't exactly the best neighbor. Like coal mines, they provide a lot of jobs but come with a lot of nasty cancer causing stuff. Costs, time, permitting. The time line to build a fab is long, the pay back period is long. The only way a new merchant fab happens in the US is with Government support (CHIPs act) and the happenstance that Intel, the US company with the best fab experience, is falling behind in the design space.

Don't think I'm correct? This guy knows what he's talking about.



Thousands of parts on our boards. EIGHT come from TSMC. So even if the H100s are made by Intel, they still get shipped to China and manufactured with a lot of other overseas parts.