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No New Wars! Well, maybe some new wars. OK, we LOVE war!

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murphstahoe

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Re: No New Wars! Well, maybe some new wars. OK, we LOVE war!
« Reply #975 on: May 06, 2026, 11:04:29 AM »
Quote from: Custard on May 05, 2026, 11:08:44 PM
Exactly.

If running out of oil was any possibility, or if renewable was any kind of a cost competitive threat to oil without massive government subsidies, Big Oil would already own the entire renewable industry.

Instead we have misguided taxpayer money and venture capital gobbling up some of the best farm ground on earth to build ugly solar and wind farms that are susceptible to myriad issues while oil/coal/gas will continue to provide the large bulk of our energy needs for the foreseeable future.

*Maybe* (I hope!) by the time the panels and turbines they’re installing now are worn out and need replaced at great expense they’ll have the technology to a point it’s actually cost and/or natural resource competitive with fossil fuels.

It’s largely a false economy at this point. I’d love for the world to have magical clean energy, but the solutions we are trotting out are anything but.

Custard was that guy in the 1950s looking at Eniac and saying this computer is way too big, we should just hire a bunch of humans to do calculations
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Reacher

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Re: No New Wars! Well, maybe some new wars. OK, we LOVE war!
« Reply #976 on: May 06, 2026, 11:59:18 AM »
Are we at war today? Or is this an off day?
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murphstahoe

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Re: No New Wars! Well, maybe some new wars. OK, we LOVE war!
« Reply #977 on: May 06, 2026, 03:24:30 PM »
Quote from: Reacher on May 06, 2026, 11:59:18 AM
Are we at war today? Or is this an off day?

Por Que no los dos!

Oh shit ICE is at the door
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ThePAMan

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Re: No New Wars! Well, maybe some new wars. OK, we LOVE war!
« Reply #978 on: May 06, 2026, 03:28:15 PM »
Quote from: Reacher on May 06, 2026, 11:59:18 AM
Are we at war today? Or is this an off day?

Sounds like Iran has not stopped attacking while Trump is planning on TACOing
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Custard

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Re: No New Wars! Well, maybe some new wars. OK, we LOVE war!
« Reply #979 on: May 07, 2026, 01:28:47 AM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on May 06, 2026, 10:29:00 AM
The rate it is going it will be the Chinese who figure out the tech and affordability aspects and leave the US in the dust.

They don’t make solar panels here because it’s too expensive. They don’t make a lot of the wind turbine parts here because it’s too expensive. We still are putting them up like crazy though.

Been arguing this for over a decade on various iterations of HQ, but building a bunch of “green” energy sites that take up valuable arable land and require immense natural resources, mining, fossil fuels, etc isn’t that big of a win.

MiniDitka always used to argue that we had to go through this whole rigmarole of seriously flawed renewable energy to learn how to do it right. No, we don’t. How about we invest in getting it right and then implement it properly.

China still pollutes like a motherfucker and using fossil fuels and sketchy mining practices to build the solar panels and turbine parts we buy from them is part of that. We off shore pollution and land degradation the same way we do labor and then act like it’s a win.
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Custard

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Re: No New Wars! Well, maybe some new wars. OK, we LOVE war!
« Reply #980 on: May 07, 2026, 01:42:31 AM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on May 06, 2026, 11:04:29 AM
Custard was that guy in the 1950s looking at Eniac and saying this computer is way too big, we should just hire a bunch of humans to do calculations

You’re the guy with Chinese solar panels on your roof that were paid for by taxpayer money and were built with materials from toxic mines and were manufactured using dirty coal fired electricity that got to California on a freighter that uses .35 TONS of diesel fuel per nautical mile and then tell us you have free energy
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murphstahoe

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Re: No New Wars! Well, maybe some new wars. OK, we LOVE war!
« Reply #981 on: May 07, 2026, 07:19:42 PM »
Quote from: Custard on May 07, 2026, 01:28:47 AM
Been arguing this for over a decade on various iterations of HQ, but building a bunch of “green” energy sites that take up valuable arable land and require immense natural resources, mining, fossil fuels, etc isn’t that big of a win.

If you put solar panels up on the land, you can always take them down. And instead of fucking up the land and waterways using fertilizer to grow corn to produce fuel for cars, you just ... make fuel for cars.

That land is a lot less valuable than you think, a lot of the value is subsidy. And we know you hate subsidy. Unless you are the one being subsidized
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murphstahoe

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Re: No New Wars! Well, maybe some new wars. OK, we LOVE war!
« Reply #982 on: May 07, 2026, 07:21:00 PM »
Quote from: Custard on May 07, 2026, 01:42:31 AM
You’re the guy with Chinese solar panels on your roof that were paid for by taxpayer money and were built with materials from toxic mines and were manufactured using dirty coal fired electricity that got to California on a freighter that uses .35 TONS of diesel fuel per nautical mile and then tell us you have free energy

SolarCity, acquired by Tesla in 2016, manufactures its solar products at Gigafactory New York (also known as Gigafactory 2) in Buffalo, New York. Located on South Park Ave, this facility specializes in producing Tesla solar roof tiles and other solar components, aiming to be a central hub for renewable energy production
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Reacher

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Re: No New Wars! Well, maybe some new wars. OK, we LOVE war!
« Reply #983 on: May 07, 2026, 08:45:35 PM »
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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illiniray

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Re: No New Wars! Well, maybe some new wars. OK, we LOVE war!
« Reply #984 on: May 07, 2026, 08:58:37 PM »
I am not expert on farming, but some of my friends grew up on farms..

Seems like farmers leasing land to solar outfits is the free market at work. Also,  sometimes farmers will fallow fields; leaving them unplanted or planted with cover crops. For PAM, JJ and Mn; this is good for soil health along with pest and weed control.

Or, sometimes, instead of growing corn or beans, they will grow grasses and / or alfalfa to harvest hay. This makes good livestock freed and is good for the soil.

As murph points out, a solar farm is a farm that grows and harvests electricity. They do so while allowing the land to lay fallow.
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alum74

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Re: No New Wars! Well, maybe some new wars. OK, we LOVE war!
« Reply #985 on: Today at 01:54:56 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on May 07, 2026, 08:58:37 PM
I am not expert on farming, but some of my friends grew up on farms..

Seems like farmers leasing land to solar outfits is the free market at work. Also,  sometimes farmers will fallow fields; leaving them unplanted or planted with cover crops. For PAM, JJ and Mn; this is good for soil health along with pest and weed control.

Or, sometimes, instead of growing corn or beans, they will grow grasses and / or alfalfa to harvest hay. This makes good livestock freed and is good for the soil.

As murph points out, a solar farm is a farm that grows and harvests electricity. They do so while allowing the land to lay fallow.

We need renewable energy and productive, resilient farms and ranches.  Bring the stakeholders together and figure out how do it compatibly in rural areas of country. And keep the ideologues and windbags out of the process.
https://farmland.org/files/aft_smart-solar-handout-general-d-(1).pdf
« Last Edit: Today at 01:58:20 AM by alum74 »
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