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USA vs Communist China

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Custard

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Re: USA vs Communist China
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2025, 09:09:08 AM »
Who would have thought making a large chunk of the world your enemy would have negative consequences like this.

Interestingly, Sleepy Joe recognized the need to bolster our rare earth element supply chain, but obviously this won't happen overnight.
https://me.smenet.org/biden-administration-announces-plans-to-secure-rare-earth-element-supply-chain/

Get back to me in a few months and let me know who exactly we made enemies with.

Our own regulations, among other factors, forced us to offshore rare earth mining, leading to us being reliant on a communist adversary. We don’t have the domestic resources some other places do (we have some) yet we aren’t doing anything here. Nothing.

Sleepy Joe’s initiative from years ago invested hundreds of millions to bolster battery production and has accomplished basically nothing even though it was supposed to be making a dent in import reliance by 2026. The DOD wanted rare earth separation online by 2027.

In the meantime we spent a couple hundred billion isolating Russia who has since cozied up to China and North Korea and India. Russia has a lot of rare earth deposits too, but you didn’t have any problem not buying from them. We’d like some rare earth rights as part of our investment in Ukraine.

We’ve seen how the might of American resources and manufacturing can shift gears quickly into an unstoppable force. Not sure we can afford to drag our feet for 6, 8, 10+ years just to onshore a relatively small percentage of what we need. “Hey, we tried” isn’t good enough. Deregulate rare earth mining in the US, incentivize companies to start separation, form new partnerships, and get us off the Chinese tit.
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ThePAMan

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Re: USA vs Communist China
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2025, 10:25:57 AM »
We’ve seen how the might of American resources and manufacturing can shift gears quickly into an unstoppable force. Not sure we can afford to drag our feet for 6, 8, 10+ years just to onshore a relatively small percentage of what we need. “Hey, we tried” isn’t good enough. Deregulate rare earth mining in the US, incentivize companies to start separation, form new partnerships, and get us off the Chinese tit.

We have seen that? Aren't we still waiting for Foxcom (sp?) in Wisconsin from the first Trump admin?

Who in their right mind is going to invest in a plant with the daily back-and-forth on the tariffs we are seeing?
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: USA vs Communist China
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2025, 10:28:31 AM »

Who in their right mind is going to invest in a plant with the daily back-and-forth on the tariffs we are seeing?
China has been more than happy to.
We've known about this issue for years.

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ThePAMan

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Re: USA vs Communist China
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2025, 10:37:50 AM »
China has been more than happy to.
We've known about this issue for years.

Let me know when it starts happening here. It isn't going to be under these conditions.
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Custard

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Re: USA vs Communist China
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2025, 10:47:19 AM »
We have seen that? Aren't we still waiting for Foxcom (sp?) in Wisconsin from the first Trump admin?

Who in their right mind is going to invest in a plant with the daily back-and-forth on the tariffs we are seeing?

Yeah I mean look what happened in the world wars. We weren’t reliant on rare earth metals and chips from Asia. We refocused our manufacturing basically overnight. Now apparently it takes 7-10 years to do anything.

Foxconn scaled back due to changing market conditions and then covid, but their democratic governor says he’s glad they’re there, Microsoft invested into the facility, and it seems like it would be a good place to start with some reshored manufacturing. Foxconn footed most of the bill, injecting nearly a billion US dollars worth of Taiwanese money into it. Subsidies and abatements were scaled back relative to Foxconn’s plans.
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ThePAMan

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Re: USA vs Communist China
« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2025, 11:31:01 AM »
Scaled back plans..... Like when there are tariffs one day, not the next, then back on the third day.
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murphstahoe

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Re: USA vs Communist China
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2025, 11:43:50 AM »
Foxconn scaled back due to changing market conditions and then covid, but their democratic governor says he’s glad they’re there, Microsoft invested into the facility, and it seems like it would be a good place to start with some reshored manufacturing. Foxconn footed most of the bill, injecting nearly a billion US dollars worth of Taiwanese money into it. Subsidies and abatements were scaled back relative to Foxconn’s plans.

Foxconn was just fucking with Trump and Walker the whole time. They didn't put any money into it. They were just throwing around a few golden shovels to get Trump off their back.

The area around there is WORSE off for the whole boondoggle. Useless shells of buildings and random power lines that would need to be pulled and redone if you wanted to make anything of it. It was just a show.

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alum74

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Re: USA vs Communist China
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2025, 12:48:29 PM »
Sleepy Joe’s initiative from years ago invested hundreds of millions to bolster battery production and has accomplished basically nothing even though it was supposed to be making a dent in import reliance by 2026. The DOD wanted rare earth separation online by 2027.

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/20022025/inside-clean-energy-ev-battery-manufacturing-capacity/

https://techcrunch.com/2025/02/06/tracking-the-ev-battery-factory-construction-boom-across-north-america/

Now I recognize that most MAGAs want immediate gratification on stuff and think Trump’s sledgehammer approach to global trade is the answer.  Soon you folks will run into the reality that reshoring manufacturing is a slow grind, with successes and failures.  It also requires coordinated planning, know-how and a long-term perspective. 

Sleepy Joe put the wheels in motion with the IRA, Job’s Act and CHIPS.  Trump would be wise to build on that effort.  More can be done.  His first step for the rare earth supply chain issue should be to boost domestic refining and processing capacity in a sustainable manner (See US rare earths startup Phoenix Tailings as an example: https://news.mit.edu/2024/startup-phoenix-tailings-turns-mining-waste-into-critical-metals-1108).  We should also be working constructively with Japan, Australia and South Korea to help create responsible alternatives to Chinese minerals processing.  Instead, we’ve provided an opening for China to cozy up to these countries. 

Unfortunately, the biggest problem right now is that very few businesses and former allies want to work with us to shift production to the US because we have an arrogant, egoistical idiot in charge surrounded by a conga line of sycophants and toadies.  Too much uncertainty and incompetence.  Industrial policy requires stability, predictability, and a clear strategic vision—not interventions that shift on the whims of a president.  Trump and his minions need to dial down the crazy.   
« Last Edit: April 15, 2025, 12:57:11 PM by alum74 »

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murphstahoe

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Re: USA vs Communist China
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2025, 01:21:41 PM »
Unfortunately, the biggest problem right now is that very few businesses and former allies want to work with us to shift production to the US because we have an arrogant, egoistical idiot in charge surrounded by a conga line of sycophants and toadies.  Too much uncertainty and incompetence.  Industrial policy requires stability, predictability, and a clear strategic vision—not interventions that shift on the whims of a president.  Trump and his minions need to dial down the crazy.

trump's trying to Nationalize Harvard, doubt he'd have any problem seizing the new TSMC plant. I'd be very skeptical if I were TSMC or Foxconn

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Custard

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Re: USA vs Communist China
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2025, 01:33:13 PM »
Foxconn was just fucking with Trump and Walker the whole time. They didn't put any money into it. They were just throwing around a few golden shovels to get Trump off their back.

The area around there is WORSE off for the whole boondoggle. Useless shells of buildings and random power lines that would need to be pulled and redone if you wanted to make anything of it. It was just a show.

Tell me you haven’t checked in on the project in 3-4 years without telling me.
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ThePAMan

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Re: USA vs Communist China
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2025, 01:33:35 PM »
"conga line of sycophants and toadies"

Good line
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murphstahoe

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Re: USA vs Communist China
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2025, 01:36:15 PM »
Tell me you haven’t checked in on the project in 3-4 years without telling me.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2023/11/10/what-happened-to-foxconn-in-wisconsin-a-timeline/71535498007/

State officials hailed Foxconn's arrival, but despite a massive investment of public money and the construction of several buildings, including an eye-catching dome, Foxconn largely failed to deliver on its original promises.

weird. Did the JS misspell "investment of Foxconn's money" as "investment of public money"?

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Custard

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Re: USA vs Communist China
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2025, 01:42:58 PM »
https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2023/11/10/what-happened-to-foxconn-in-wisconsin-a-timeline/71535498007/

State officials hailed Foxconn's arrival, but despite a massive investment of public money and the construction of several buildings, including an eye-catching dome, Foxconn largely failed to deliver on its original promises.

weird. Did the JS misspell "investment of Foxconn's money" as "investment of public money"?

There’s that spin that gets the TDS crowd throbbing hard.

Microsoft has agreed to invest 3.3 billion into an AI center there, first phase expected to be completed this year, Foxconn themselves have invested close to 2 billion, there are 12-1500 jobs, 2000 more coming through MS. Yeah it hasn’t gone to plan but it’s not like it’s a completely abandoned waste zone.
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murphstahoe

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Re: USA vs Communist China
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2025, 01:55:58 PM »
There’s that spin that gets the TDS crowd throbbing hard.

Microsoft has agreed to invest 3.3 billion into an AI center there, first phase expected to be completed this year,

AI you say.

Shit.. *I* have more to do with making that happening than Trump does.

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alum74

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Re: USA vs Communist China
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2025, 02:03:13 PM »
Microsoft has agreed to invest 3.3 billion into an AI center there, first phase expected to be completed this year.

Thanks Joe, Tony, Racine County and Foxconn.