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The most important election of our lives

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illiniray

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Re: The most important election of our lives
« Reply #645 on: January 03, 2025, 02:48:09 PM »
Quote from: No one in Mn on January 03, 2025, 02:15:01 PM
If anyone in the Trump campaign was in the same room with a Russian citizen, it was "evidence" of collusion.
Bullshit.

The Clinton campaign works with a Russian citizen to effect a Presidential election
[/quote]

Fusion GPS hired Steele, who hired Danchenko. Steele testified he didn't know  HRC campaign was involved.

According to a published report, when the FBI applied for the warrant, they disclosed that Steele was working for Fusion GPS to investigate/ dig up dirt on  Trump.
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illiniray

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Re: The most important election of our lives
« Reply #646 on: January 03, 2025, 03:03:44 PM »
Quote from: No one in Mn on January 03, 2025, 02:31:37 PM
Again, and again, and again and again.
Clinesmith lied to the FISA court and you come up with an article co-written by someone who, imo, should never be taken seriously that includes "Under FISA, “verification” simply requires both the FBI and lawyers in the Department of Justice to verify that the facts as set forth in the affidavit are supported by evidence obtained as part of the investigation."
This alone, dismisses the entire article.

That's your opinion. You have a way of stating your personal opinions as facts. What does the Brennan Center say?

Legal opinions aren't black and white.


Clinesmith effed up altering the email.

They thought they had probable cause.
For the most part, they did what they thought was within the law to secure the warrant. Horowitz thought they should have disclosed the connection to HRC. Brennan did not think it was necessary since Steele was not aware of her involvement.

I don't see any layered conspiracy to frame Trump.

I do see Republicans acting as his defense attorneys.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2025, 04:37:32 PM by illiniray »
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No one in Mn

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Re: The most important election of our lives
« Reply #647 on: January 04, 2025, 08:45:20 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on January 03, 2025, 03:03:44 PM
That's your opinion. You have a way of stating your personal opinions as facts. What does the Brennan Center say?

Legal opinions aren't black and white.


Clinesmith effect up altering the email.

They thought they had probable cause.
For the most part, they did what they thought was within the law to secure the warrant. Horowitz thought they should have disclosed the connection to HRC. Brennan did not think it was necessary since Steele was not aware of her involvement.

I don't see any layered conspiracy to frame Trump.

I do see Republicans acting as his defense attorneys.

When Clinesmith was informed that Carter Page was a governmental source and changed the wording in the communication from was a source to was not a source and presented that to the FISA court , that allowed for the FISA warrant on Page which allowed for surveillance on a Presidential campaign and then on the sitting President.

And then you give me a 2018 article co-authored by Daniel Goldman that includes a sentence that the government needs to be truthful in their presentation to the court.

You mention the different layers in the Clinton campaign, Perkins Coie, Fusion GPS, Orbis, Christopher Steele, Igor Danchenko and his bar talk buddies but don't see a layered conspiracy essentially because the Clinton campaign didn't contract out with Danchenko directly.

You mention that they had probable cause. If they had probable cause to go after Page why did an FBI lawyer feel the need to alter a document to the FISA court ?
From you: "they thought was within the law to secure the warrant."

But get your party hats and noisemakers ready because in less than a week the Democrats will get their wish to finally be able to call Trump a convicted felon as a result of a case with possibly no prosecutorial precedent anywhere. And a case where you even questioned the felony charges.

Unless a court intervenes.

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No one in Mn

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Re: The most important election of our lives
« Reply #648 on: January 04, 2025, 09:17:28 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on January 03, 2025, 02:48:09 PM
Bullshit.

The Clinton campaign works with a Russian citizen to effect a Presidential election


Fusion GPS hired Steele, who hired Danchenko. Steele testified he didn't know  HRC campaign was involved.

According to a published report, when the FBI applied for the warrant, they disclosed that Steele was working for Fusion GPS to investigate/ dig up dirt on  Trump.
“By intentionally obscuring their payments through Perkins Coie and failing to publicly disclose the true purpose of those payments,” the campaign and DNC “were able to avoid publicly reporting on their statutorily required FEC disclosure forms the fact that they were paying Fusion GPS to perform opposition research on Trump with the intent of influencing the outcome of the 2016 presidential election,” the initial complaint had read.

A DNC spokesperson played down the decision, saying: “We settled aging and silly complaints from the 2016 election about ‘purpose descriptions’ in our FEC report.” The lawyer representing both the campaign and the DNC did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-2022-midterm-elections-business-elections-presidential-elections-5468774d18e8c46f81b55e9260b13e93

The Clinton campaign/DNC were fined $113,000 over misuse of the term "legal expenses" in an effort to influence the outcome of a Presidential election.
Trump will be a convicted felon with 34 felony counts, unless courts intervene, on Friday over misuse of the term "legal expenses" in an effort to influence the outcome of a Presidential election.

I know you like Politico so here's a 2016 PoliticoMagazine article with pictures of the Clinton campaign's "well-oiled operation", yeah it says that 😁, headquarters in Brooklyn.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/gallery/2016/07/inside-hillary-clintons-brooklyn-headquarters-000662/?slide=0

I don't need a map to know that the Brooklyn, NY campaign headquarters is in the same state as the state that concocted  34 felony charges for Trump over the term "legal expenses" and election interference.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2025, 09:19:47 AM by No one in Mn »
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illiniray

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Re: The most important election of our lives
« Reply #649 on: January 04, 2025, 11:08:26 AM »
That's a huge stretch, but very creative.

I think the election tampering, attack on capital, and classified docs charges were / are serious. The lying about sex and concealing the funds for an NDA as legal expenses, not so much. It does look like an effort to prevent voters from knowing about the sex. Is it common to write off the cost of concealing CEO sexual impropriety as legal expenses? More the 36 counts were because the repayment to the lawyer were spread out to conceal the lump sum to the porn star. Sexual misconduct and NDAs are not illegal
 Covering them up might be. Concealing the payment as legal expenses might be. Since a lawyer handled it, I bet this a common mistake, not necessarily a concealment. But, didn't the lawyer confess? Plus, the elaborate repayment scheme and attempt to conceal implied knowledge of guilt

Still, I wouldn't pursued this criminally.

The Clinton Campaign hired a law firm to do opposition research (and other stuff) which hired GPS Fusion, which hired ...

None of that was illegal. Apparently they called it legal expenses?  Again, that seems to me like it would be a common mistake. You pay a lawyer, it's legal expenses. Or not? 

« Last Edit: January 06, 2025, 04:42:45 PM by illiniray »
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Custard

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Re: The most important election of our lives
« Reply #650 on: January 04, 2025, 11:46:27 AM »
Daniel’s is a sleaze ball who was orbiting Trump trying to get famous. When that didn’t work she “came forward” with a BS story for a payday. She had every motivation to make something up. No idea why people assume she’s telling the truth. Well, actually I do know why.
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ThePAMan

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Re: The most important election of our lives
« Reply #651 on: January 04, 2025, 11:51:37 AM »
Quote from: Custard on January 04, 2025, 11:46:27 AM
Daniel’s is a sleaze ball who was orbiting Trump trying to get famous. When that didn’t work she “came forward” with a BS story for a payday. She had every motivation to make something up. No idea why people assume she’s telling the truth. Well, actually I do know why.

Wasn't she "famous" already?

The payment was for an NDA so she would not tell, or sell, the story of her tryst with Trump.
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No one in Mn

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Re: The most important election of our lives
« Reply #652 on: January 04, 2025, 12:38:36 PM »

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Custard

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Re: The most important election of our lives
« Reply #653 on: January 04, 2025, 12:44:00 PM »
She admitted she was trying to get close to him hoping that he’d put her on The Apprentice. He did not, and she had to continue on with her porn career. She signed an agreement, under pressure from her own representatives, that said she didn’t actually have sex with Trump. Trump has always vehemently denied any affair and said they paid her off just to stop the extortion that was happening. She sold a book. We all saw what happened to TSJ. The whole thing is ridiculous. No way should 34 felonies be attached to any of it.
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illiniray

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Re: The most important election of our lives
« Reply #654 on: January 04, 2025, 01:05:19 PM »
Quote from: Custard on January 04, 2025, 11:46:27 AM
Daniel’s is a sleaze ball who was orbiting Trump trying to get famous. When that didn’t work she “came forward” with a BS story for a payday. She had every motivation to make something up. No idea why people assume she’s telling the truth. Well, actually I do know why.

Possibly because Cohen admitted to paying Stormy Daniels and Trump admitted to authorizing the payments. It takes a special kind of denial to ignore that.

The reason for 34 counts had to with consciously concealing the payments as legal expenses paid to Cohen
.
Personally, I don't think they should have pursued it.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2025, 01:09:12 PM by illiniray »
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illiniray

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Re: The most important election of our lives
« Reply #655 on: January 04, 2025, 01:24:17 PM »
Quote from: No one in Mn on January 04, 2025, 09:17:28 AM
“By intentionally obscuring their payments through Perkins Coie and failing to publicly disclose the true purpose of those payments,” the campaign and DNC “were able to avoid publicly reporting on their statutorily required FEC disclosure forms the fact that they were paying Fusion GPS to perform opposition research on Trump with the intent of influencing the outcome of the 2016 presidential election,” the initial complaint had read.

Civil complaint, not criminal..

There was no elaborate attempt to conceal or launder any bribes, er, NDAs. .

Clinton Campaign paid the fine to settle the case, but did not concede anything.

I am sure you have some other tedious red herrings.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2025, 04:44:24 PM by illiniray »
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Custard

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Re: The most important election of our lives
« Reply #656 on: January 04, 2025, 03:18:51 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on January 04, 2025, 01:05:19 PM
Possibly because Cohen admitted to paying Stormy Daniels and Trump admitted to authorizing the payments. It takes a special kind of denial to ignore that.

The reason for 34 counts had to with consciously concealing the payments as legal expenses paid to Cohen
.
Personally, I don't think they should have pursued it.

Lots and lots of people think they shouldn’t have pursued it. The fact that they did was obvious lawfare and pushed more people toward Trump than away from him. Should have been civil if anything like Hillary’s campaign fine.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2025, 03:24:58 PM by Custard »
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No one in Mn

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Re: The most important election of our lives
« Reply #657 on: January 04, 2025, 04:16:55 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on January 04, 2025, 01:24:17 PM
Civil complaint, not criminal..

There was no elaborate attempt to conceal or launder any bribes, er, NDAs. .

Clinton Campaign paid the fine to settle the case, but did concede anything.

I am sure you have some other tedious red herrings.

The FEC charged Clinton. The FEC didn't charge Trump. NDAs are legal.
The state charged Trump. The state didn't charge Clinton.
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illiniray

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Re: The most important election of our lives
« Reply #658 on: January 04, 2025, 04:44:27 PM »
Quote from: No one in Mn on January 04, 2025, 04:16:55 PM
The FEC charged Clinton. The FEC didn't charge Trump. NDAs are legal.
The state charged Trump. The state didn't charge Clinton.

I read it that the FEC accused the Clinton Campaign and the  DNC of misreporting. Not HRC personally. I don't think there was a criminal charge either. It was a civil penalty.

Also, I read that Cohen pleaded guilty to a criminal charge. Was that the FEC?  Or the FBI? The IRS? The SPCA? I don't really give a SHIT. They decided not to charge Trump. Probably because the main witness would have been Cohen..
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Re: The most important election of our lives
« Reply #659 on: January 04, 2025, 06:39:37 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on January 03, 2025, 02:48:09 PM
Bullshit.

The Clinton campaign works with a Russian citizen to effect a Presidential election


Fusion GPS hired Steele, who hired Danchenko. Steele testified he didn't know  HRC campaign was involved.

According to a published report, when the FBI applied for the warrant, they disclosed that Steele was working for Fusion GPS to investigate/ dig up dirt on  Trump.

We all know about the Clintons. Such upstanding and trustworthy people…

https://x.com/itsjohnrocker/status/1875567720340844842?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
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