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Poll

Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?

No
5 (35.7%)
Yes
9 (64.3%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Voting closed: January 26, 2024, 10:59:11 AM

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Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?

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illiniray

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #195 on: May 17, 2024, 05:38:37 PM »
I believe if Shannon's lawyers quoted her sworn testimony from a hearing in a motion; they did so accurately.

If that testimony was inconsistent with statements she gave police previously; that doesn't exactly help the prosecution's case.

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spark mandrill

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #196 on: May 17, 2024, 06:02:09 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on May 17, 2024, 05:38:37 PM
I believe if Shannon's lawyers quoted her sworn testimony from a hearing in a motion; they did so accurately.

If that testimony was inconsistent with statements she gave police previously; that doesn't exactly help the prosecution's case.

Where did his lawyers quote her saying she didn't know who fingered her?

Here's their motion: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.illinoisloyalty.com/attachments/motion-to-compel-discovery-pdf.34807/&ved=2ahUKEwiFoJWA45WGAxX1MjQIHdQeANsQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw05JV5ER29zN_i6xn8VT85f

No direct quotes from her testimony that I see.  And certainly no direct quotes of her saying "I don't know who fingered me" or anything similar - what you claimed was 'in her own words'.

It says she "testified that she was assaulted from behind as she stared straight ahead, and that the hand she believed touched her came from the man standing to her left.  She testified as to her belief that the man next to her was Mr. Shannon."

Far from "I don't know who fingered me", which is what you claimed they 'quoted (from) her sworn testimony' she said the hand she believed touched her came from the man standing to her left, and that she believed the man standing to her left was Shannon.

This conclusion that she's unsure or saying like "I think it was him but I'm not sure!" is being floated by his attorneys, who repeatedly emphasized that she believed she was touched, and that she believed the man to her left was Shannon (after she looked up photos of him).  No quotes on any of it.  Emphasis theirs, not hers.
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illiniray

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #197 on: May 17, 2024, 06:30:21 PM »
There is a difference between "I believe" and "I know." If you don't grasp that; then you shouldn't call others idiots.
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illiniray

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #198 on: May 17, 2024, 06:59:32 PM »
Instead of quoted, I should have written referenced, represented, paraphrased ...
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spark mandrill

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #199 on: May 17, 2024, 07:20:40 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on May 17, 2024, 06:30:21 PM
There is a difference between "I believe" and "I know." If you don't grasp that; then you shouldn't call others idiots.

Is there a difference between "I believe it was this person" and "I don't know who it was"?
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illiniray

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #200 on: May 17, 2024, 07:49:00 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 17, 2024, 07:20:40 PM
Is there a difference between "I believe it was this person" and "I don't know who it was"?
 

There is shade of difference and a similarity. Belief is not the same as knowing.  "I believe it was this person" is suspicion with some degree of uncertainty.
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illinicalvin

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #201 on: May 17, 2024, 08:19:19 PM »
They don't quote her testimony at all in the motion. They don't really need to for a discovery motion IMO, but you can't take it as a verbatim representation.

""I believe it was this person" is suspicion with some degree of uncertainty" is not accurate. The criminal law uses "reasonably believes" as a standard for self-defense force and reads out conscious uncertainty.

More generally, the law permits reasonable inferences and circumstantial evidence, so there's not a distinction between knowledge and belief when it comes to what is proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

If you wake up and you walk outside and the ground is wet and there are puddles in the road, you can reasonably infer it rained from circumstantial evidence. You have no real knowledge that it rained and nothing based on direct evidence. You believe it rained the same way a woman at a bar can put a, b, and c together and believe the identity of who assaulted her based on circumstantial evidence.
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illinicalvin

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #202 on: May 17, 2024, 08:31:50 PM »
Quote from: Judge Judy on May 17, 2024, 12:29:38 PM
She’s calling him a rapist! He’s been called all kinds of names, etc… and she doesn’t even know if it’s him! Yes, I’d say that’s a problem!
It's not. She obviously had some reason to believe it was him, went home, and identified him that night. Eyewitness testimony isn't foolproof, but it's admissible evidence and could support a conviction.
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illiniray

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #203 on: May 17, 2024, 09:33:49 PM »
Quote from: illinicalvin on May 17, 2024, 08:19:19 PM
If you wake up and you walk outside and the ground is wet and there are puddles in the road, you can reasonably infer it rained from circumstantial evidence. You have no real knowledge that it rained and nothing based on direct evidence. You believe it rained the same way a woman at a bar can put a, b, and c together and believe the identity of who assaulted her based on circumstantial evidence.

Reasonably is the key word there. Is her alleged belief reasonable?
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Custard

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #204 on: May 17, 2024, 10:53:42 PM »
I’m not a match for spark but I agree with elements of both sides of this argument. PAMan may not agree, but I totally believe the entire thing was orchestrated.

I do take a bit of umbrage though when spark paints a big chunk of the fanbase as slut shaming morons because some of them came to the defense of a player that is, by most all available evidence, an exemplary human being.

Tempo has to be jealous of the amount of fence sitting spark has done throughout this whole ordeal.
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Judge Judy

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #205 on: May 17, 2024, 11:02:03 PM »
Quote from: Custard on May 17, 2024, 10:53:42 PM
I’m not a match for spark but I agree with elements of both sides of this argument. PAMan may not agree, but I totally believe the entire thing was orchestrated.

I do take a bit of umbrage though when spark paints a big chunk of the fanbase as slut shaming morons because some of them came to the defense of a player that is, by most all available evidence, an exemplary human being.

Tempo has to be jealous of the amount of fence sitting spark has done throughout this whole ordeal.

Well said…
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illinicalvin

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #206 on: May 18, 2024, 11:53:06 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on May 17, 2024, 09:33:49 PM
Reasonably is the key word there. Is her alleged belief reasonable?
I have no fucking idea and neither does anyone else who hasn't had access to her actual testimony on the matter.
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illinicalvin

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #207 on: May 18, 2024, 12:05:53 PM »
Quote from: Custard on May 17, 2024, 10:53:42 PM
I do take a bit of umbrage though when spark paints a big chunk of the fanbase as slut shaming morons because some of them came to the defense of a player that is, by most all available evidence, an exemplary human being.
You can defend the guy (whom I feel bad for almost regardless) without the slut-shaming. It's totally immaterial and as far as I'm aware, we don't have any useful evidence to even support the idea.
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illiniray

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #208 on: May 18, 2024, 02:25:12 PM »
I have seen a lot of ire directed at the DA's office, very little at the alleged victim.

The consensus view
seems to be  something happened, but the alleged victim (a) misidentified the perp (b) exaggerated the incident..

I have suggested it could possibly be a false charge motivated by revenge for rejection. Is that slut shaming? I don't think do. Still hardly anyone wants to go there.

To me, slut shaming is blaming the victim for getting raped due to seductive conduct, sexy attire, and so on. I haven't seen that.

There is a strong consensus that the available evidence doesn't reasonably  support the charges. Some think the prosecution must have an ace up their sleeve we don't know about.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #209 on: June 06, 2024, 02:40:04 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on May 16, 2024, 08:08:07 PM
"9. It has recently come to the attention of the defense that a female patron at the same bar involved in Mr. Shannon’s Complaint alleges that she was present at the bar on August 26, 2023, when a black male (“3rd party”) sexually assaulted her in the “corner” of a room at the bar by grabbing her vagina. (Counsel for the State has confirmed the date and general location of the alleged assault by the 3rd party. Counsel for Mr. Shannon inquired of the State if the August assault took place in the “corner” of the Martini room. Counsel for the State refused to provide this information.) Unlike M.N., the victim was wearing pants at the time, such that the perpetrator was not able to touch her under her clothing.

10. This victim reported the allegations to University of Kansas Police and ultimately—after September 9, 2023--the 3rd party was charged with raping the victim at different location on the same night as the alleged assault in the bar. Those charges were subsequently dismissed.

11. Counsel has recently determined that the 3rd party identified as responsible for the August sexual assault (less than 2 weeks prior to incident in which Mr. Shannon is allegedly involved) was present at the bar, in the room, and in the same vicinity around the time that M.N. was allegedly assaulted."


Arterio Morris is the 3rd party .
And the defense filed a motion today to include that information.



Also, the defense withdrew its motion to exclude DNA evidence and the expert report.
The prosecution filed for a delay due to double booking their workload but the judge said 'nope'.
The prosecution then refiled under their assertion that the denial may be due to the NBA status of TSJ. No word yet on how the judge will address this one. .
Trial is still set for Monday.

Also from Mitch Gilfillan

"It is undeniable + undisputed an open investigation is ongoing against the Chief District Attorney, Suzanne Valdez, for alleged unprofessional behavior towards Douglas County judges. Four professional rules of misconduct were taken before a judiciary panel December 18, 2023."
« Last Edit: June 06, 2024, 02:53:29 PM by No one is above the law »
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