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Poll

Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?

No
5 (35.7%)
Yes
9 (64.3%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Voting closed: January 26, 2024, 10:59:11 AM

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Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?

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Custard

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #75 on: May 02, 2024, 12:41:12 PM »

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Custard

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #76 on: May 02, 2024, 12:43:29 PM »
DNA from 5 dudes that aren’t TSJ, but no slut shaming allowed!
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spark mandrill

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #77 on: May 02, 2024, 12:45:39 PM »
Obviously not going to stop you from slut shaming.
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Custard

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #78 on: May 02, 2024, 12:52:19 PM »
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ThePAMan

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #79 on: May 02, 2024, 12:52:58 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 02, 2024, 12:34:08 PM
Ah yes, the due process of taking a motion made by his attorneys and posting it publicly to slut shame his accuser. 

The vaginal swab will be the key evidence, if there is any.  It’s interesting that it wasn’t mentioned in this motion to dismiss testimony.  If there isn’t a match on that then I can’t imagine it’ll go to trial, as it’ll be nearly impossible to prove him guilty without that.

A lot of people are pretending this exonerates him somehow, but it doesn’t.

A. You wanted him suspended and did not care one bit about Due Process.
B. A reporter posting portions of the motion has what to do with Due Process? Especially your supporting suspending him pending an investigation (that never got very far).
C. The lack of swab evidence may make a conviction harder, but there are issues on swab timing, etc. and there is still her word versus his (at a minimum).
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spark mandrill

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #80 on: May 02, 2024, 12:54:26 PM »
Quote from: Custard on May 02, 2024, 12:52:19 PM


Oh look, bad faith bullshit from Custard!

A true shocker
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spark mandrill

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #81 on: May 02, 2024, 01:01:50 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on May 02, 2024, 12:52:58 PM
A. You wanted him suspended and did not care one bit about Due Process.
B. A reporter posting portions of the motion has what to do with Due Process? Especially your supporting suspending him pending an investigation (that never got very far).
C. The lack of swab evidence may make a conviction harder, but there are issues on swab timing, etc. and there is still her word versus his (at a minimum).

A. Yes, I think the University and the AD should have the right to suspend someone without a criminal conviction.  Everyone agreed with that last year, but now that it’s us suddenly it’s a minority opinion among Illini fans.  A judge said they don’t have that right, so obviously that needs to be abided by.  I don’t remember Pierre Pierce or Brandon Miller or any other number of players for other teams getting the “they can’t suspend him, he hasn’t been convicted!” treatment from Illini fans - in fact, most Illini fans vocally wanted Miller suspended despite not even being charged with a crime.

B. A “reporter” (being generous there, Kedric is an absolute moron) posting an excerpt from a motion from his lawyer with the obvious intent to slut shame the accuser is going to sit wrong with me, yeah.  Remember this isn’t the first time he posted something like this from Shannon’s lawyers and last time it was extremely misleading.  That isn’t a coincidence.

C. The vaginal swab will be important, and if they knew he was excluded by that evidence it’d obviously have been included here.  That doesn’t mean it matches, I’d guess it means his lawyers don’t know if it matches yet. But he wasn’t even accused as far as I know of anal penetration so the anal swab doesn’t move the needle really.

I agree that it’s her word against his, I certainly haven’t seen evidence that’d cause me to think he should be convicted.  But this evidence is by no means exculpatory.  A DNA match from the vaginal swab would make me think a plea or trial is likely though, and no match on that swab would lead me to believe a trial/plea is unlikely.

This was made public to get the exact “this crack whore!” reaction from Illini fans that JJ and so many others gave it.  But it’s pretty obviously not exonerating evidence as so many Illini fans are pretending it is.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #82 on: May 02, 2024, 01:06:59 PM »
Also, for the record, even if he did exactly what he was accused of doing I don’t think someone should go to prison for a decade for it.  It’s certainly not what I imagined when I saw his charge originally.  It obviously still isn’t right but it’s materially different than I expected before I’d read the affidavit.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #83 on: May 02, 2024, 01:09:01 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 02, 2024, 01:01:50 PM
A. Yes, I think the University and the AD should have the right to suspend someone without a criminal conviction.  Everyone agreed with that last year, but now that it’s us suddenly it’s a minority opinion among Illini fans.  A judge said they don’t have that right, so obviously that needs to be abided by.  I don’t remember Pierre Pierce or Brandon Miller or any other number of players for other teams getting the “they can’t suspend him, he hasn’t been convicted!” treatment from Illini fans - in fact, most Illini fans vocally wanted Miller suspended despite not even being charged with a crime.

B. A “reporter” (being generous there, Kedric is an absolute moron) posting an excerpt from a motion from his lawyer with the obvious intent to slut shame the accuser is going to sit wrong with me, yeah.  Remember this isn’t the first time he posted something like this from Shannon’s lawyers and last time it was extremely misleading.  That isn’t a coincidence.

C. The vaginal swab will be important, and if they knew he was excluded by that evidence it’d obviously have been included here.  That doesn’t mean it matches, I’d guess it means his lawyers don’t know if it matches yet. But he wasn’t even accused as far as I know of anal penetration so the anal swab doesn’t move the needle really.

I agree that it’s her word against his, I certainly haven’t seen evidence that’d cause me to think he should be convicted.  But this evidence is by no means exculpatory.  A DNA match from the vaginal swab would make me think a plea or trial is likely though, and no match on that swab would lead me to believe a trial/plea is unlikely.

This was made public to get the exact “this crack whore!” reaction from Illini fans that JJ and so many others gave it.  But it’s pretty obviously not exonerating evidence as so many Illini fans are pretending it is.

A. The school is a state actor. The laws apply to it, as we see with the current campus protests, regardless of your (or my) opinion.

B. What he does has zilch to do with Due Process.

C. Certainly is an interesting factoid, if it is even accurate.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #84 on: May 02, 2024, 01:10:10 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 02, 2024, 01:06:59 PM
Also, for the record, even if he did exactly what he was accused of doing I don’t think someone should go to prison for a decade for it.  It’s certainly not what I imagined when I saw his charge originally.  It obviously still isn’t right but it’s materially different than I expected before I’d read the affidavit.

We still have not really heard her full side of the story. It should be sorted out in court at some point.

What the prosecutors put together is not necessarily her fault.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #85 on: May 02, 2024, 01:12:58 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on May 02, 2024, 01:09:01 PM
A. The school is a state actor. The laws apply to it, as we see with the current campus protests, regardless of your (or my) opinion.

B. What he does has zilch to do with Due Process.

C. Certainly is an interesting factoid, if it is even accurate.

Yes, the state laws apply to it.  But the state law never stated that you couldn’t suspend a kid from basketball barring a criminal conviction, obviously.  A judge made that ruling just a few months ago.  As far as I could find every player anywhere who was charged with a crime was at minimum suspended indefinitely when the charge came in.

I agree what Kedric Prince posts has nothing to do with due process, which is why I mocked you for bringing up due process because of something he posted.

What about C could be inaccurate?  Obviously if they had the vaginal swab and knew it excluded their client they’d have included that.

The anal swab isn’t really relevant at all.  He wasn’t even alleged to have penetrated her anus.  It’s being posted by Illini guys and Shannon’s lawyer specifically to slut shame, one of the oldest tricks in the sexual assault case playbook.  Even if he did exactly what he was accused of, a DNA match from an anal swab wouldn’t be expected.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2024, 01:15:16 PM by spark mandrill »
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Judge Judy

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #86 on: May 02, 2024, 01:22:46 PM »
So Spark, why does only his character/lack there of matter?! Should hers be made public like his if in fact she is a fucking sluts making shit up?! Have prior accusations?! Etc?! He should lose his livelihood in the meantime? She should be able to walk around and not have any consequences through the process?! Boy, doesn’t seem right to me. She’s got 5 other individuals’ inside of her and none match him. 5!!!! Yeah, ok. Tell us your self-righteous opinion and how “wrong” and “stupid” we are…
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ThePAMan

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #87 on: May 02, 2024, 01:30:25 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 02, 2024, 01:12:58 PM
Yes, the state laws apply to it.  But the state law never stated that you couldn’t suspend a kid from basketball barring a criminal conviction, obviously.  A judge made that ruling just a few months ago.  As far as I could find every player anywhere who was charged with a crime was at minimum suspended indefinitely when the charge came in.

I agree what Kedric Prince posts has nothing to do with due process, which is why I mocked you for bringing up due process because of something he posted.

What about C could be inaccurate?  Obviously if they had the vaginal swab and knew it excluded their client they’d have included that.

The anal swab isn’t really relevant at all.  He wasn’t even alleged to have penetrated her anus.  It’s being posted by Illini guys and Shannon’s lawyer specifically to slut shame, one of the oldest tricks in the sexual assault case playbook.  Even if he did exactly what he was accused of, a DNA match from an anal swab wouldn’t be expected.

I thought we were talking about federal law, since that is what was applied and allowed him to play. State law was irrelevant to the whole situation with Illinois suspending him.  So why even bring up state law? As to what occurred with other players, maybe they should have hired better lawyers?

We know you do not care about Due Process unless it fits your needs. You are not alone in this thought.

Well, they tested her back region for a reason. If the allegation is his hand went down her backside on the way to insertion, the swab of that area could show something. It did show something. It just was not that it showed him but 5 other dudes. Obviously, if the allegation is the hand went down the front, yeah, it is wholly irrelevant to the claim here.

I do not know what the vaginal swab shows. I think we will find out one way or another.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #88 on: May 02, 2024, 01:31:35 PM »
Quote from: Judge Judy on May 02, 2024, 01:22:46 PM
So Spark, why does only his character/lack there of matter?! Should hers be made public like his if in fact she is a fucking sluts making shit up?! Have prior accusations?! Etc?! He should lose his livelihood in the meantime? She should be able to walk around and not have any consequences through the process?! Boy, doesn’t seem right to me. She’s got 5 other individuals’ inside of her and none match him. 5!!!! Yeah, ok. Tell us your self-righteous opinion and how “wrong” and “stupid” we are…

Who said a damn word about his lack of character?  If people were assassinating his character for things that are totally irrelevant to the case I'd say the same thing.  I haven't seen anything short of this allegation that'd lead me to question his character at all - hell, even if he did exactly what he was accused of here I don't think I'd go so far as to say it makes him some terrible irredeemable person.  At the absolute worst case possibility it seems like a case where he thought he had consent and did not.

You're slut shaming her, pretty blatantly and openly, because of the basketball team he played for.  Which obviously isn't surprising, but is extremely gross.  It doesn't matter if she had sex with 2 or 5 or 25 other men.  None of that is remotely relevant to the case in question, in fact right now it's exclusively being used to make people react emotionally like you are.

Why would there be consequences for her right now?  We have zero of the information we'd need to conclude that she made the whole thing up - in fact, most of the actual evidence we have supports parts of her story (but notably not the actual allegation against Shannon).  You're here acting like an anal swab that didn't match exonerates him when he literally wasn't even accused of penetrating her anus.  You're ignoring that he IS accused of penetrating her vagina, and the vaginal swab results are not mentioned in this motion from his lawyers.  Those results will hold much more weight in terms of where the case goes from here.

Yes, the DNA indicates she had contact with up to 5 other men (at least 2). If you think that means he's exonerated or has any relevance whatsoever to the allegation then yes, you're wrong and stupid.  It doesn't.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #89 on: May 02, 2024, 01:35:32 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on May 02, 2024, 01:30:25 PM
I thought we were talking about federal law, since that is what was applied and allowed him to play. State law was irrelevant to the whole situation with Illinois suspending him.  So why even bring up state law? As to what occurred with other players, maybe they should have hired better lawyers?

We know you do not care about Due Process unless it fits your needs. You are not alone in this thought.

Well, they tested her back region for a reason. If the allegation is his hand went down her backside on the way to insertion, the swab of that area could show something. It did show something. It just was not that it showed him but 5 other dudes. Obviously, if the allegation is the hand went down the front, yeah, it is wholly irrelevant to the claim here.

I do not know what the vaginal swab shows. I think we will find out one way or another.

Pretty ironic to accuse me of not caring about due process unless it 'fits my needs'.  The actual objective reality is that more or less no Illini fan including you gave one shit about "due process" in the cases of any of the hundreds of kids suspended for being charged with a crime - including multiple from our own program - until it put our basketball season in jeopardy.  It literally was never a thing until it affected your favorite team.  Not one single Illini fan that I saw pushed back on the Brandon Miller stuff by talking about due process and how he wasn't convicted of a crime, not one - in fact, nearly every comment I saw about it went the exact opposite direction, a principle which those people have now mostly abandoned once it affected THEIR favorite team.

They tested her anus because it's standard procedure when performing a rape screening.  As is a vaginal swab.  He was not accused of penetrating her anus, so the anal swab doesn't matter all that much.  He was accused of touching her inner-thigh from the back, and the inner-thigh swab was inconclusive.

This motion was posted by Kedric for exactly one reason, and obviously a lot of people obliged.
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