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THE JFC Thread!

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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #1770 on: December 11, 2023, 08:21:51 PM »
Quote from: Can’t Miss Quarterback on December 11, 2023, 08:09:07 PM
Well I think people have it in their minds of what good quarterbacking is supposed to “look like.” Beautiful stats, near flawless play. Look around the league. There’s a lot of ugly football going around. I know you’re on the no excuses tour, but I still think he can get better.

I am looking for play-making ability, toughness, maturity, leadership. Fields has all of that in spades.

Yeah, and if you watched Fields in that game yesterday and thought "well, we can win this way sustainably even if it isn't pretty and we have to pay $100m for this type of QB play" then I disagree.  His most productive drive as a passer yesterday featured two plays that are turnovers probably 40-50% of the time, one play where he got absolutely drilled in the head area on a run, and one of the worst defensive meltdowns you'll ever see in an NFL play for a 38 yard TD.  It's not that it "wasn't pretty" - it's that it's not at all sustainable.

Play-making ability is great, but if he can't throw the ball consistently then it will be taken away.  Toughness, maturity, leadership - all great qualities for a guy who is a great passer, but if you're a mediocre passer it doesn't really matter how mature you are.  You're likely going to have a tough go as an NFL QB.  A lot of mediocre to bad QBs were tough, mature leaders.  You have to actually produce.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #1771 on: December 11, 2023, 08:27:04 PM »
Jordan Love. So much better than Justin Fields.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #1772 on: December 11, 2023, 08:27:38 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on December 11, 2023, 08:20:13 PM
Well, if credible people are saying it.

Peyton Manning. Pretty credible.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #1773 on: December 11, 2023, 08:28:44 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on December 11, 2023, 08:21:51 PM
Yeah, and if you watched Fields in that game yesterday and thought "well, we can win this way sustainably even if it isn't pretty and we have to pay $100m for this type of QB play" then I disagree.  His most productive drive as a passer yesterday featured two plays that are turnovers probably 40-50% of the time, one play where he got absolutely drilled in the head area on a run, and one of the worst defensive meltdowns you'll ever see in an NFL play for a 38 yard TD.  It's not that it "wasn't pretty" - it's that it's not at all sustainable.

Play-making ability is great, but if he can't throw the ball consistently then it will be taken away.  Toughness, maturity, leadership - all great qualities for a guy who is a great passer, but if you're a mediocre passer it doesn't really matter how mature you are.  You're likely going to have a tough go as an NFL QB.  A lot of mediocre to bad QBs were tough, mature leaders.  You have to actually produce.

I think yesterday’s game is closer to Fields’ floor than his ceiling. Still a pretty good game for the zero pro bowls offense.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #1774 on: December 11, 2023, 08:28:59 PM »
Quote from: Can’t Miss Quarterback on December 11, 2023, 08:27:38 PM
Peyton Manning. Pretty credible.

Better hope he doesn't say anything negative about Justin Fields, otherwise you might have to completely disregard his opinion next time!
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #1775 on: December 11, 2023, 08:30:39 PM »
Quote from: Can’t Miss Quarterback on December 11, 2023, 08:28:44 PM
I think yesterday’s game is closer to Fields’ floor than his ceiling. Still a pretty good game for the zero pro bowls offense.

You've literally named the offensive unit after an excuse you want to make for Justin Fields.

Just embarrassing shit.

By the numbers, yesterday was almost exactly an average game for Justin Fields this year.  It is not his floor, at all.  It was maybe his fourth or fifth worst game out of 8.5 this year.  And that's exactly the problem.

You can say "that's closer to his floor than his ceiling", but when he's been worse than that numerous times in his third year as a starter (even accepting the notion that his first 25 starts or whatever don't count) maybe it isn't that close to his floor?  Maybe it's, like, an average game for Justin Fields as a passer.


EDIT: edited to more accurately reflect what you said.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2023, 08:42:33 PM by spark mandrill »
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #1776 on: December 11, 2023, 08:37:51 PM »
By passer rating, yesterday was his 13th best game out of 35 starts.  Only counting this year, 4th out of 8.5.

By rushing yards, 15th out of 35.  Only counting this year, 4th out of 8 (not counting the half for counting stats)

By passing yards (223), 7th out of 35.  Only counting this year, 3rd out of 8 (not counting the half for counting stats)

By AY/A, 12th out of 35.  Only counting this year, 4th out of 8.5.


Even if I accept the notion that no games he played in before this season counted, it's much closer to his median (top half in all those categories) than his floor.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #1777 on: December 11, 2023, 08:43:48 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on December 11, 2023, 08:28:59 PM
Better hope he doesn't say anything negative about Justin Fields, otherwise you might have to completely disregard his opinion next time!

I watched him call the Bears game on the Manning cast once, seemed to be a fan and rooting for him.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #1778 on: December 11, 2023, 08:44:24 PM »
Hit me with yer statz.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #1779 on: December 11, 2023, 08:45:06 PM »
So you think he’s exactly the same quarterback he was his first two years?
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #1780 on: December 11, 2023, 08:46:21 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on December 11, 2023, 08:30:39 PM
You've literally named the offensive unit after an excuse you want to make for Justin Fields.

Just embarrassing shit.

By the numbers, yesterday was almost exactly an average game for Justin Fields this year.  It is not his floor, at all.  It was maybe his fourth or fifth worst game out of 8.5 this year.  And that's exactly the problem.

You can say "that's closer to his floor than his ceiling", but when he's been worse than that numerous times in his third year as a starter (even accepting the notion that his first 25 starts or whatever don't count) maybe it isn't that close to his floor?  Maybe it's, like, an average game for Justin Fields as a passer.


EDIT: edited to more accurately reflect what you said.

#noexcuses

You literally have gotten to a point where I can’t tell who is more unreasonable. You, or the PAMan. At least I think the PAMan is sometimes playing a bit.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #1781 on: December 11, 2023, 08:48:31 PM »
Quote from: Can’t Miss Quarterback on December 11, 2023, 08:45:06 PM
So you think he’s exactly the same quarterback he was his first two years?

Did I say that?
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #1782 on: December 11, 2023, 08:49:51 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on December 11, 2023, 08:48:31 PM
Did I say that?

Well you just compared his most recent game with his entire career so it seems you implied it.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #1783 on: December 11, 2023, 08:50:28 PM »
Quote from: Can’t Miss Quarterback on December 11, 2023, 08:46:21 PM
#noexcuses

You literally have gotten to a point where I can’t tell who is more unreasonable. You, or the PAMan. At least I think the PAMan is sometimes playing a bit.

If you think it's unreasonable to think saying "the zero pro bowls offense" over and over is cringey, embarrassing shit then fair enough.  :)

I'm curious what you thought was so unreasonable about that post?  You said it was "closer to his floor than his ceiling".  I don't think that's true, and the actual data doesn't really show that to be true either.  It shows a pretty average result for Justin Fields, even while disqualifying his first 26 starts or whatever.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #1784 on: December 11, 2023, 08:52:22 PM »
Quote from: Can’t Miss Quarterback on December 11, 2023, 08:49:51 PM
Well you just compared his most recent game with his entire career so it seems you implied it.

LOL.

I'm trying to find SOME data regarding Justin Fields' performance that you will conclusively acknowledge as valid.

I provide the whole career data, but you say that can't count - so fair enough.  I provide just this season's data so you can see what it looks like with your "most of his career doesn't count" rule applied.  And you still find some reason not to count it.

What WILL you accept?  Do I really need to limit it to just "2023, weeks 4-5" to make these discussions seem "fair" to you?
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