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THE JFC Thread!

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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #810 on: December 04, 2023, 05:38:47 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on December 04, 2023, 05:37:37 PM
I'm not playing that dumb game with you again.

Justin Fields hasn't been good enough to justify paying.  It's possible he plays well enough to justify paying him next year, but that is a huge risk given the ability to take a QB high in the draft this year.

You are considerably more impressed than I am with the "turnaround", in which 3 of the last 6 games he has played the offense has been really bad.   I don't think I could justify paying him or passing on a top draft prospect due to that 'turnaround'.  This without mentioning that you were raving about his turnaround last year too.

There's nothing much more to say about it.  You want to keep Fields and potentially pass on the top QBs (doing both just isn't a realistic option).  I think the most likely result of that by far is that we end up in a bad situation a year from now, when Fields is in a make-or-break year with our roster's cap flexibility on the line with a new coach and a new OC.

Can you at least commit to not continuing to make the infinite, never-ending excuses for him if they do keep him?  It'll be absolutely insufferable if you're still blaming everyone else a year from now.  Surely you see that would be silly.

Wait, you get to make the claim, but now are not willing to provide examples? Well that seems…odd.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #811 on: December 04, 2023, 05:39:22 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 04, 2023, 05:37:53 PM
They’re just no fucking way a competent GM is going to Kyle Shanahan and says “here’s your QB, like it or not.” No fucking way.

And no one has claimed otherwise.  I've said over and over "I'm sure they make the decision together," you simply ignore that so you can build a straw man.  You could straight up argue against me without me here - you simply decide what 'I' am arguing even when I am here.

But there's no doubt, if they disagree on which QB to take, whose decision is the one getting made.  The pick is John Lynch's job on the line, not Kyle Shanahan's, and John Lynch has the final say about who gets picked.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #812 on: December 04, 2023, 05:40:19 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 04, 2023, 05:38:47 PM
Wait, you get to make the claim, but now are not willing to provide examples? Well that seems…odd.

As usual, you're simply ignoring what I actually said.  I'm done with it.  I'm not going to keep repeating the same shit because you refuse to actually listen to what I say and just make something unreasonable up and attribute it to me.  It's a waste of my fuckin' time.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #813 on: December 04, 2023, 05:40:24 PM »
If I made a claim that “good quarterbacks overcome all the time!” I’m sure I’d be willing to provide a few examples.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #814 on: December 04, 2023, 05:40:58 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on December 04, 2023, 05:40:19 PM
As usual, you're simply ignoring what I actually said.  I'm done with it.  I'm not going to keep repeating the same shit because you refuse to actually listen to what I say and just make something unreasonable up and attribute it to me.  It's a waste of my fuckin' time.

I’ve heard what you said. You “haven’t seen enough.”
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #815 on: December 04, 2023, 05:42:11 PM »
It’s pretty amazing how I can quote you pretty much verbatim and act like I’m misrepresenting what you said.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #816 on: December 04, 2023, 05:45:33 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on December 04, 2023, 04:20:31 PM
Paying for upside is how you end up with a terrible team.

ironic, because “paying for upside is exactly what you’re doing by drafting a QB at #1 and moving on from a guy with an established floor (top 20). You’re “paying for it” in draft capital.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #817 on: December 04, 2023, 05:46:59 PM »
“Every team has key injuries.  The good QBs find ways to keep playing well.  He has not done that so far.“

Your words exactly. I can’t misconstrue or reinterpret them. Who specifically?
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #818 on: December 04, 2023, 06:15:23 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 04, 2023, 05:40:24 PM
If I made a claim that “good quarterbacks overcome all the time!” I’m sure I’d be willing to provide a few examples.

And if you did, I'd simply ignore the list so we could be even.  That's what you do.  You just ignore everything I type.  You would go absolutely nuts if I debated against you like you "debate" against me here.

Here are a couple guys who have overcome poor OL play, injuries, etc this year:

Matthew Stafford has one of the worst OL in the league and played most of the season without Cooper Kupp.  He turned an UDFA rookie into a top WR in the NFL.  His team is sixth in the league in drops.  He has a QBR almost 15 points higher than Justin Fields.

Jared Goff has what should be an elite OL, but they have had a ton of injury issues too.  Their starting line coming into the season played 75 snaps together before a guard got hurt for the year.  Putting their backup in, THAT group has played together for 26% of the Lions snaps.  Penei Sewell is their only starting OL to not sit at least one game this year.  He's got a great WR1 (as does Fields), but nothing special after that.  His team is fourth in the league in drops.  Goff has a QBR 16 points higher than Fields.

Russell Wilson has a mediocre OL, an aging arm, and nothing special at offensive skill positions.  His top WR is 5th in the league in drops.  He has a QBR 5 points higher than Fields. 

Joshua Dobbs played half the season for a blatantly tanking team, and then a few games with a Justin Jefferson-less Vikings offense.  Neither team has a particularly good OL, and without Jefferson the skill positions in Minnesota aren't anything special either (Addison is pretty good, but not DJ Moore good).  His current team is 7th in the league in drops.  He has a QBR 9 points higher than Fields.

Jordan Love has been missing his top RB for a while (5 missed games), plus his veteran LT for the entire season.  Not much in the way of pass-catchers - Romeo Doubs, Jayden Reed, Luke Musgrave (who's now probably out for the year) are his leading receivers.  His team in 9th in the league in drops.  He has a QBR 13 points higher than Fields.
 
Sam Howell, who you mocked earlier for being bad the last few weeks, has a terrible OL and decent but not elite skill guys.  His team is 10th in the league in drops.
 His QBR is 2 points higher than Fields.

Gardner Minshew came into this season as a backup before their top-pick QB got hurt.  The starting RB who has been great in the past has spent most of the year either holding out or hurt.  Pittman has some game but again, IMO not close to DJ Moore.  The other WR there (Josh Downs, Alec Pierce, Isaiah McKenzie) are either only okay or young or both.  His team is 11th in the league in drops.  His QBR is 13 points higher than Fields.

Derek Carr lost his 5x Pro Bowl interior lineman for the season before it started.  His best WR regressed, and then got injured again.  His top WR is 10th in the league in drops.  His QBR is 2.5 points higher than Fields.

Obviously Stroud has been fantastic, and most people thought they would be tanking again this year.  Instead they're eyeing a playoff berth.  His best pass catchers are Nico Collins and Tank Dell (until Dell got hurt yesterday).  His QBR is 14 points higher than Fields.


The list of dudes with worse QBR than Fields is like a laundry list of dudes who have either played very little, or who most people seem to recognize aren't that good.  Ridder, Kenny Pickett, Mac, Levis, O'Connell.  The best QBs with worse QBR than Fields right now are probably Deshaun Watson, who just took a couple years off from football entirely, and Jimmy G who got flat out benched for Aidan O'Connell.

I have no doubt you will nitpick a lot of this list - hell, you'll probably tell me later I didn't even write it out - but the point is that a lot of guys have questionable OLs, injury issues, questionable pass catchers, questionable coaching/playcalling and still seem to produce at a level similar to or better than Fields has shown so far.  Even guys you'd never in a million years trade Fields for.



Everyone on the list other than Sam Howell and Russell Wilson has a sack rate at least 4.7% better than Fields'.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2023, 06:23:29 PM by spark mandrill »
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #819 on: December 04, 2023, 06:24:54 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 04, 2023, 05:45:33 PM
ironic, because “paying for upside is exactly what you’re doing by drafting a QB at #1 and moving on from a guy with an established floor (top 20). You’re “paying for it” in draft capital.

Sorry, you think spending the top pick on a QB is more expensive than paying $100m for one?

You're joking, right?

There's a reason teams build around QBs on rookie contracts.  That's an insane take.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2023, 06:31:01 PM by spark mandrill »
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #820 on: December 04, 2023, 06:25:40 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 04, 2023, 05:40:24 PM
If I made a claim that “good quarterbacks overcome all the time!” I’m sure I’d be willing to provide a few examples.

And then you'd lie about whatever was said to you to make it sound unreasonable while you massacre a straw man.

Happens every fuckin' time with you.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #821 on: December 04, 2023, 06:27:02 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 04, 2023, 05:42:11 PM
It’s pretty amazing how I can quote you pretty much verbatim and act like I’m misrepresenting what you said.

You have no fucking idea what it means to "quote someone verbatim", obviously.

You lie about shit I said CONSTANTLY.  Damn near every debate I've ever had with you, you have lied about what I said.  Often you will lie about it for years, no matter how often I point out you're lying.  You don't care - it's worth it to claim a victory, even if you have to lie to do it.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2023, 06:29:45 PM by spark mandrill »
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #822 on: December 04, 2023, 06:33:23 PM »
It was a good idea to fire mass shots with lots of “supporting data” instead of just providing a few names. All of the credible names you listed are established veterans who’ve been to Super Bowls.

Lol as is Josh Dobbs and Sam Howell would be good enough for you to forget about Caleb Williams.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #823 on: December 04, 2023, 06:33:48 PM »
Derek Carr lol
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #824 on: December 04, 2023, 06:35:13 PM »
Derek Carr has a worse passer rating than Fields. And an established roster with multiple legitimate weapons.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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